Okay.
I'd like to call the October 15th policy setting committee meeting
to order at 403.
I want to thank you all for coming in to this meeting,
and I want to congratulate
our two new and advisors and welcome you to the committee.
We'll just do a quick roll call by going around the table
and stating your name and your position.
So I'll start.
My name is Tricia Steiner and I'm a school board member.
Kathy Seger School Board.
Kim Smith, Solicitor.
I don't usually attend, but I'm here tonight because of certain policies
and to try to expedite your process right now.
I'm Stephanie Patton and this is an adviser.
Josh Slezak, citizen advisor, KIPP
charter school board member,
Jason Rec Center Administrator.
Beth Olmstead, Citizen Advisor.
John Abel School Board member.
Great. Thank you.
And I just want to quickly I know I sent out the Citizen
Advisor orientation packet to the new members
and it's still a document in draft form,
but I wanted to let you know that
your vote is important,
so we want to hear your vote when we ask for a vote.
The four board members on the committee are the
are the votes that move or don't move something to the full board.
But your vote is still important.
So when we ask for a vote, please
say yea or nay.
And then I just want to quickly
note that's
a meeting minutes from the last meeting are attached.
I just learned recently from one of the training modules
that we don't actually have to approve the minutes,
so I'm just going to note them
that they're there and if anybody has any changes, just let me know.
Are you okay with that? Give
I just yeah, I'm just curious.
So we're relying on everybody to have read the amendments and just
bring up revisions if they're needed.
Otherwise, they're going to be deemed as
approved by silent consent and filed as presented.
Is that. Correct?
Yeah.
I'll just note that the minutes are attached
and if anybody has changes, we can make those.
Yeah, because that implies then that they were
approved by silent consent and will be filed as presented.
Right. Okay. Thanks.
All right, So move.
Let's dive right into our policies.
First one on our list is policy six 32.1
for the tax increment financing.
This was this is a draft policy
that was put together by a subcommittee
that we asked members of this of the school board and also our
Mike friends
and Terry Singer, who is also a school board member to who's
our treasurer to come up with this policy
in light of the history
of last year where we had
a tough proposal that was presented to the school board.
And so we want to
make sure we have a policy in place if anything happens in the future.
I have some things to do.
Are you ready for discussion? Okay.
I was wondering if under delegation of.
Well, first of all, I'm going to start out with
thank you to the TEF committee for doing the policy.
I do think we need a policy in place.
I was on the TIFF subcommittee.
This is my third year in the board two years prior
when we did have the township and the developers
come to the school board to ask for a test for the development on Chocolate Avenue.
And so I went through that whole process and we didn't have a guiding policy,
so we just did it with whatever, you know, procedure we wanted to.
So I like that
we're going to try to have a guidance for the district on how to address tests.
My question is, do we want to designate the business manager,
which we kind of did,
and we went through the TIFF process, We made Mike friends our designee
or usually our policies, say superintendent
or designee,
you know, do you want is it
that's just something to think about
under two under guidelines.
This site is considered a blighted area that is.
Did that come from the actual state law on that
on improving a test that has to be blighted?
I thought it probably did.
And Lindsay's Drew was here in the audience.
She is on the test committee, so she wants to speak to that.
And Kip was as well.
So I don't want to overstep that into some policy committee.
But to address your first question about superintendent,
under the delegation of responsibility, we included
Mike as the business manager in conversations, because while everything
would pass through the superintendent, he would be the one that would be
reviewing and receiving all of the documentation.
And he
in this instance, he also serves as board secretary.
So that's why we had the business manager.
And then for the guidelines is number two, that is a requirement of the test
to be of any test to be considered what would be deemed as a blighted area,
though my understanding is that based on the tip zone and the local municipality
or an ordinance and organization that they are able
to determine what defines blighted area.
Okay.
So my other thing in number seven, there's a typo.
It says C of the total bond issued will be assessed.
Just get rid of and
will be assessed as an application fee.
And I think that's what you meant to say. Just get rid of it. And
and then number 12, any
project approved for participation at TIFF shall be completed within two years.
Is that reasonable or is that part of the statute.
Two years.
Do we did did we make that up the district or did we bring that from a statute?
We made that up okay.
And did that on the basis of that.
It would be completed within two years because we were looking at the
the structure of the board that would be approving
the test and the length of terms for that.
So to make sure that
it was completed and then approved
upon execution, that completion of construction
under the same governing board that had initially authorized it.
Okay.
And then I like the you added what the board would want before
final approval.
And I thought we had had at some point that we would want to see five years
of finances from the at the pers the people who are applying for it.
Did that come up at all
having like a three year financial history from any developer
or corporation who's coming to us with a tiff?
Kip, perhaps you can speak to?
I don't recall that we were specifically looking at the historical financial
information for those we were looking for there.
Just a full financial package.
Right?
It came up and we felt that it's that, that,
that specific item
is rolled into the other due diligence that we're doing
and that that that would be part of it rather than breaking that out
and specifying three or five years of records.
We also felt that that would be something that was just to line
item specific for a policy,
and we were trying to maintain some level of a higher overarching
guideline of what
would be included, because ultimately
everything
inside of that list is what would go for the final proposal
to the board for approval or not approval.
There would be extension as
review of all of the documents
done prior to it getting to that point.
Okay.
I don't know if it if it's worthy of adding that or not.
I guess you already had that discussion because that did come up
when we were going through the last tiff is we have no guidelines.
We just had developers come to the township and come to us.
We never saw any financial history on them.
We heard rumors about other projects they had done.
They told us stories about what they had done,
but we had no proof of what they had done.
So I didn't like that.
Like, I didn't think that anybody can just roll into town and walk up to the board
and ask for a test without, you know, Are you a reputable business?
Have you ever, you know, filed bankruptcy?
Have you ever done a test before?
What kind of test did you do that we got nothing from them.
So I don't know what if we could,
but if you think that's rolled into financing
method, it plan
detailed description of the financing
method in the plan or something like that, then I'm fine with that.
Yeah, we were looking at this from the sense that
because there would because of a TIFF subcommittee
that's in place right now would be serving as the initial reviewers
of this information anyway, that that's a piece of information
that would be requested to even look at the application
and would be discovered throughout that process.
So we felt that by the time to say when it's submitted to the board
for final approval, by that time we would have been far beyond
determining whether or not we felt that particular developer was,
you know, financially sound enough to carry.
That type of project.
Well, we did not get any of that as a TIFF subcommittee the last time we did this.
That's why we need it in writing one.
One of the things that if you look in the paragraph below, number 13,
that first bullet point specific information regarding the parties
involved in the preferential in a certain program proposal,
we we considered that that would be our detailed
evaluation nation of of those folks that were applying for the tiff.
Okay that if we started to itemize
what we wanted,
we might not have the flexibility
to say said, well, you know, you don't have that in your policy.
Whereas by leaving it somewhat general
at that moment in time, we can decide what we want.
Right?
Because if we were to just say we wanted, you know, a five year financial statement
or if or three years of tax returns
that may prohibit us from being able within reason
to ask for additional financial information from them.
So if we left it more specific,
then we would be able to have those ongoing conversations.
And then that going back to the delegation of responsibility
with the business manager,
that we would put the trust in the business manager
to make sure that we have all of the financial information
being brought forward to the committee before it would come to the board.
Okay.
We could develop a rubric as an attachment
that would be almost like a checklist of this is what we would
what we would require would include,
but not be limited to and then have our, you know, whatever we felt was reasonable.
And that would be an attachment rather than in the body of the policy.
Right.
And we talked about as well that that could be more underneath the
administrative guidelines or any type of,
you know, guidelines document that would be supportive in the policy.
But for actual purposes of written policy,
we didn't want to go that specific so as not to limit ourselves.
But Jason, if we adopt and adopt a new policy for TIFF,
would you automatically create administrative guidelines for it? No.
No. And Kim, you could correct me if I'm wrong, but
administrative regulations are really to guide the administration
and not necessarily the board.
But you can actually add I mean, you could you could add board operating guidelines
to go along with your test, but I wouldn't add administrative regulation.
That's it.
But wouldn't we also do that, though, for the business manager,
because the business manager would fall under his administration or not?
So, I mean, you could, but the business manager is not the person
voting on or on the tiff.
It would be the board.
So I mean, you could I mean, you can create guidelines for whatever.
I just don't know if I call them administrative regulations.
Okay.
Guideline
reading guidelines is a good idea because my last question would be,
do we want to reference this TIFF subcommittee?
And we could go to our board operating guideline on committees and
spell out what that because that was approved,
I think four or five years ago by a previous board,
as I said, because I went back
through all the minutes to figure out when it started.
And then I don't think we've ever memorialized that in our board
operating guidelines because maybe that could be step two.
After we do step one policy, we could do step two board operating guidelines.
Yeah, I think that would be more than okay.
And I did see that as an admission because in committee
we specifically agreed that the TIFF application first
will be reviewed by the school board TIFF
committee in conjunction with any needed independent consultation.
That's how we worded it.
And I'm right that because that committee is because all of the other policies,
all the other policy or guidelines around committees does not reference
the existence of an actual standing TIFF committee right now.
And it's somewhat of an ad hoc need that we didn't reference it within.
There's actually a TIFF committee that is the Derry Township TIFF committee
that we are a part of, and then we have a Derry Township school District committee.
So I went to the township for meetings on the test
with the supervisors, the township manager, their financial managers.
Mike went and hour.
So there's we could probably memorialize that into a board operating guideline.
Okay.
Yeah, I think it's important because we're not always going to be here.
So to have something memorialized
or in writing so that future boards are future business.
Yeah, because we have a TIFF portion of our township
that is designated for tiffs now from one end of chocolate to another.
So this could happen for us, right?
And actually the local supervisors or the
zoning authority
has the ability to extend and or change that
that tiff zone at their discretion.
So that's why we didn't include anything specific about the TIFF zone,
because we knew that it could be extended to say like cover the Middletown Road
corridor or something like that, whereas today it doesn't currently.
And I see you haven't hear that we would only ever participate in one tiff
at any given time and one tip could last 20 years that.
So okay,
so we like that.
We then would need to make the TIFF committee.
A standing committee
came before we would then reference referring
or the fact that it's known to be an ad hoc committee.
It would just exist
whenever and be used whenever it needed to be used.
Yeah, it is board approved like we approve the delegates
every January as a subcommittee.
It's not one of our official standing committees, but it's one of those
like we have wellness, We have it's
an ongoing it's an ongoing subcommittee.
I think you could reference it as an ongoing subcommittee
or if you wanted to make it ad hoc, but then it should be linked to any time
you're looking for a tiff or someone's proposing a tiff
and you don't have one currently functioning.
I also want to go back to the other point you made, Kathy,
about receiving information.
We did add the paragraph on the last page that says applicants must first
demonstrate approval by the township and county for their application.
So we would be
expecting that the county and township are both on board with that.
That doesn't mean that all of the appropriate information
that we would want to see would be provided, but that would be,
you know, two of the first hurdles that we would expect them to.
Say, you know, that did not happen last time
because we're the biggest piece of the pie.
So everyone wants to know what we're going to do first because we're 64.
And that's why we figured. That was they don't even vote on it.
So they know why
they don't want to waste time on it until they know what we're doing right.
That's why we put it into the policy, because we didn't
we didn't feel that the school board, while we are the largest
taxing body, was in a position to be able to make
the assessment for
approval of the overall development plan,
because so many other conversations happen at the county and township level
and because we're really just
the financing component of it and how it affects the tax dollar.
So we thought by putting that in there
that that would kind of push back
and put responsibility on the county and the township to do due diligence
and at least preliminarily approve to pass it on to us.
We did discuss that in detail and felt that whoever was applying for the tiff
needed to jump through those hoops first before they got us.
Right.
Thank you.
I had a I had a question.
So look at it.
Three and four and I guess 24
more important parts of the equation
in terms of what the seeing now with respect to any
future future tests.
So would I'm looking at number four.
I'm just wondering if number four should say
other or additional revenues.
I was going to suggest we add the phrase or additional
because of the way I see it, as
we want to know what's the impact of the tests
would generate additional revenue to the district.
What also create economic development that will produce other
or additional revenues.
And then the last thing I wanted to suggest,
perhaps there as a as a new number five,
from what I understood from the last
go around, you can have a test.
That part of the test will include
additional housing for folks.
So it might be apartments, it might be condos.
But sometimes I thought work within these tests
is some sort of residential component.
And I was thinking that we would want to have as an A five.
And I just scratched out from a language that already read out loud this project
must include an estimate
of its impact on student population,
including without limitation,
any expected increase in enrollment.
So I can repeat that.
But I think part of my concern has been here's a test, here's all these
new housing units, and that will likely
create new students into our district.
And I think we should probably know
what that impact will be
as we review the tests.
I mean, do we expect one or two new more students or do we expect
200 new students once this
residential component gets constructed?
My understanding is that there is not a direct
requirement for generation of housing
related to a test because the actual piece of the project
that the test was for previously was for a parking structure,
not the component that had
the the residential requirement.
And we discussed
we discussed listing projects for which a tiff would not be considered.
And we can certainly do that.
If you want to say no test will be granted for
residential projects or parking projects, we can do that.
There is no there's no reason we can't make a list of things
we wouldn't approve a tiff for.
Well, I think we had one of the reasons we didn't list the things that a tiff
wouldn't be approved for was because we didn't want to limit or have.
You know, if we list five things that we would not consider a tiff for,
and then we got one that's
kind of out of left field, we didn't want to preclude that.
It could.
I mean, you can always use the phrase, you know, but not limited to.
Right.
Which is why when it was talking about the project will generate
economic development that produces
increased economic improvements, generating other revenues.
We were looking at the project.
It should be all encompassing of a piece of a project,
not just a standalone fixture, like
a parking structure.
Mm hmm.
Well, if we add John's sentence, he's
not saying that you can't apply if you have housing.
He's just saying estimate the impact out of it.
I mean, that
I don't know if that. That's right.
You just said must include an estimate of the impact on student enrollment. So
if applicable to
the project, if a if if it's including
a residential component,
the project, if it includes a residential component,
must include an estimate of its impact on student population,
including, without limitation, any expected increase in enrollment.
I think that covers us that that we're not
you know, we're not going down that laundry list of
no test, but it would be a a project
if an inclusive residential component come in must include an estimate
of its impact on student population, including a limitation,
any increase in expected enrollment.
That was sort of my concern.
The last go around was they're going to build this.
And, you know, we ought to know what that means.
I mean, certainly we were, you know, want to have our doors open to all students.
But I think that the board should know that ahead of time in the future.
Can you say that again?
Sorry, I didn't quite get it all down.
Yeah.
The project, if it includes a residential component
comma, must include an estimate
of its impact on student population,
including without limitation,
any increase in expected enrollment.
In any increase in expected enrollment
and make that a new number five
in accounting, you call it a typo.
And was it number seven?
So add
that as a separate line item or do you think that it could just be
a component of number four because it's only addressing if there were residential?
I, I don't have strong feeling where you put it.
All right.
I mean, that is a fair ad.
Yeah, I don't see it. That did come up with it.
I mean, many people that was one of their objections is how could you approve
a test when you're improving increase enrollment like you're rating?
Yeah, I don't know. So I don't have a problem with that. Yes.
Thank you.
With regard to number 12,
the completion within two years
without some sort of
consequences for failure,
that failure to do so, it just becomes a suggestion.
So I was thinking that maybe we should add the sentence if the project
is not completed within two years of approval of the tiff,
the tiff for the project will be immediately and permanently resolved
and that would give them
little bit more impetus to get the project completed.
Mm hmm.
I didn't think of that while we were in committee or while we were.
It's just when I was reviewing this and thinking
it just becomes a suggestion that if there's no consequences.
Well, I'm sure that would be drawn up in the legal agreements.
When goes. Don't you sign the documents?
I don't know.
When you sign the documents for a test like before construction starts
because they start getting the money after it's reassessed at the end.
Right.
And then we take the increase in the property tax
and give it to whatever it's through. So I
would that be part of a
legal agreement anyway, or it should be part of a legal agreement with you
if there's a specific timeline for your projected completion.
But keep in mind how fluids,
keep in mind, how fluid those can be with change orders and everything else.
But if you are saying in order to qualify or to be approved by the board,
it has to have a two years, then that puts the pressure on the person,
the entity who's developing or doing whatever to see that it's done.
I just wonder if you want to say dissolved, but not forever.
Like if they could reapply or I don't know.
Right?
If an exception would be granted, you know, based on extenuating
circumstances, I don't know that we would want to be that
limiting in our policy because what we would have to go through
in order to modify the policy to accommodate that versus
having it be addressed within the legal language of the documents.
So, Kim,
do you think that that having leaving it as is.
The if you wanted to change it at all, I mean, you the board
hopefully as part of your process of getting all the materials
and the information is that you'll have a pretty clear idea of when the project's
going to be completed by having shall be completed and including,
you know, a penalty if it's not,
you might be limiting yourself and you certainly then would not have
the flexibility in this document to make an exception.
You might have an extraordinarily great project
that you think you really want to do and this might restrict you.
So I think you could say if you wanted to do anything, you could say it's desired.
It would be desirable to have it finished or that you specifically want
as part of your criteria to include what the timeline for completion would be.
So it's really up to the committee, but I think you could have it.
You know,
it would be desirable and recommended that projects be completed in two years
unless otherwise, you know, so
something that's a little more flexible, maybe.
But maybe if you said something
that was up to and including
being dissolving the the agreement.
Sure.
You know, you could say could encounter a penalty
up to and possibly including.
So it gives you a whole host of I think it's a good idea.
How would you word that sentence and.
Let's see any project approved for participation in the term
shall be completed within two years.
Otherwise penalties could be incurred
up to and including possible
revocation of the agreement.
So at this point,
is this something that we can
move on with these modifications?
Are they clear enough for us to move on?
And so like, can would you now take a look
at this policy and clear it for us to go to the full board?
Sure. Yep.
I had one other
concern
twice in the policy, the draft we have the board
reserves the right to conduct a public hearing,
and I'm wondering if you all would be interested
in changing that to the board will conduct
a public hearing or hearings.
I, I really think it would be
inadvisable and certainly not be transparent
if we were to consider if any board were to consider a tiff
without having a public hearing.
I don't think it's a good idea at all.
I agree.
So you want to reword that as the board reserves the right.
What are you going to say? Just the board shall.
The board shall or you shall conduct a public hearing or hearings.
Many takes.
But should there be any threshold of dollar impact?
I wouldn't even know where to start with that.
I'm just wondering, you know, depending on the way
the financing is done for whatever the project could be, if you're looking at
what the increase
in assessed value, that would be forgoing that tax,
you know, recognizing that tax increase,
if it's all projects, would potentially.
I don't know if it's a good idea to put any numbers on there just because,
as I said, for trying to make a long lasting document to account
for inflation and other factors that we have no idea
what are going to be.
I think when we talked about we were also talking about the fact
that it would be an unfinished business in our public agenda,
probably on more than one occasion before being presented.
So that would also offer
the opportunity for public comment
versus just automatically having a public hearing.
I absolutely think that that you would
this is not something you would approve in one meeting.
So you would advertise it
as part of your regular public board meetings, which would invite the
so you could you could try to have and schedule a public hearing specifically
for that person purpose,
but then expect that at your public board meetings
you would have the opportunity for additional discussion.
And I'm thinking of the renovations or the change over
for the Grenada building to have power train come in.
There was a lot of comment at public meetings, particularly
from senior citizens who used the prior facility,
you know, primarily and had distinct opinions on that.
You didn't have a public hearing, but you certainly had a lot of public
comment during meetings.
I think that's why if we had
reserves the right, it would be that if there was
public comment being generated at the meetings
and any board member, you know, felt
the need for a public hearing based on that particular project
being reviewed, that
we would, within policy, have the ability
to have a public hearing but not required.
Well, we I when I read that I didn't read that as actually you're talking
about having a separate special meeting
outside of a board meeting because I think we did end up doing that.
But like Tim said,
we discuss it at regular board meetings under unfinished business as well.
So and that's you kind of have to leave the door open for both
that you have to leave the door open for.
It's going to be discussed at regularly scheduled board meetings.
And we also could schedule a special meeting.
I don't we call them public hearings.
No, the public meeting would be very different than a public hearing.
So it's entirely up to the committee what you would recommend.
You could still you could keep
the language is is you reserve the right to schedule a public hearing.
But that's going to be based on the knowledge that you will have
at least one, perhaps two board meetings at which you can have discussion.
So you could wait until you, the if there's a whole lot of attention,
even before the first board meeting, that might trigger a public meeting.
If you get a huge showing at the first public meeting,
you might decide, well,
we need to have a separate hearing after that, but before the vote.
So it's up to you all.
But by reserving the right,
you're still allowing yourself that opportunity, knowing that, yes,
you might have a smaller issue than a public meeting or your public board
meetings takes care of it without the need for a hearing.
A public hearing is just a special board meeting.
Yeah, same thing about outside of our normally ever two every two weeks.
Sure.
And you but you would have you could have get information
or speakers come in to talk about you know, the scope of the the program.
My friends could talk about the economic impact.
I went
I think maybe leave it as reserves the right to
we back to that because
yes I agree.
Because what is the
amount of time that's required for notice
on scheduling a separate meeting?
I can look that up.
Gosh, is it to me?
I was going to say ten days, two weeks.
Because we're we included number eight requests.
Participation must be received by the district
at least 90 days prior to final board action.
So we would have to factor in the amount of time needed.
So if the board was going to vote during a public meeting on having a
public hearing, we would have to go at least say, ten days out from there.
Which says 24 hours notice in our policy oh six meetings.
There's an advertising requirement, though, that's
special meetings.
You can have less time or emergency meetings,
but for a regular public meeting, you would need more time.
And Lindsay's
comment is relative to paragraph eight, where you talk about requests
for participation must be received by the district.
So the clock, once we receive the full package,
we have 90 days from that time to
take final action.
So for factoring in the time,
we would have a very set deadline for when we could
call for a public hearing in order to fulfill those requirements
and would have to make sure that it doesn't compromise that 90 days.
For 90 days is not a lot of time.
Well, we chose that.
We chose the phrase at least 90 days so that we could go
we could go at rates, so we could go beyond that.
On the last here, if it seemed that there was a time pressure
that the board was put on and this would say, well,
we said at least 90 days, so we're going to take 120, 180 or however.
And we change that to 90 days because it was in the original draft
version was 60 days and we started realizing that 60 days was just not enough
time to be able to have the board ready to take that action.
It's more like six months to a year.
It's reasonable.
Right?
But at least 90 days. Okay.
And Lindsay, to your first comment about was
there a need to include, you know, financial boundaries?
I think your third bullet on the second page probably addresses that
because you basically are going to require a detailed description
of the financing method, which must include the ability
to dissolve the tiff if you lose the ability to levy taxes.
So I think that what that should give you the information that you need
if there's going to be too much of a hit, it falls in that
category.
Right.
So is that is that still do do you want to send it back
to the subcommittee to clean it up before it goes to you or to you?
That might be a great idea.
But just to make sure that you all are in agreement,
the subcommittee is in agreement on the recommended changes,
and then we can send it for a quick review, a legal review.
We would probably even do that over email with the subcommittee members.
Yeah. I mean, to.
Add what we talked about, send it to them to see if it looks good
and then it can go straight to Cam and then review when it's ready.
Then you can send it to we can put on the board.
Yes. Okay.
So then just to recap, I will make the changes
as proposed by discussion here in policy Committee
and then have the TIFF subcommittee review and upon
the okay of subcommittee then move forward.
But I will copy in the Policy committee and Kim on the communication straight.
Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Thank you. And then it's going to go from Kim to the board.
It's not going to come back to policy.
Correct? Yes. Yes. That's good.
Thank you very much. Lindsay.
Can you make sure I'm included so I can actually add it to the board agenda?
Oh, maybe. Maybe, maybe.
That was implied.
Yes, we can vote on it.
Oh, yeah. Here to vote on it.
Okay, So is there any further discussion
and can I have a
as anybody?
I may like to make a motion to
move the amendments
to the subcommittee and to Kim before it comes to full board.
Is that a motion? Is that the proper right.
Yeah.
For the tiff, the new draft type policy and the new draft policy.
So moved.
Second.
And is there any further discussion.
Okay motion carries so that's the Oh we have to vote all those in favor.
All right.
I'm so anxious to get through the agenda that I'm like, okay, I'm sorry.
So all those in favor say I any opposed?
Great. Thank you.
Motion carries.
Okay, next on the agenda
is policy one 21.1 foreign travel.
And it kind of goes along with policy.
913 non-school organization men's groups,
individuals and policy nine 13.1
Commercial partnerships and sponsorships.
This was a board policy
requested a request from
from a member of the school board that wanted to
want a clarification about whether or not who had access to market
distribution materials to our kids in the schools.
I don't know if there's any modifications
that needs to be made after I reviewed these.
It seems like the policies are pretty clear
that there's an educational component and
and requires board approval
for any
outside group or teacher that would do a foreign trip.
So as anybody else have any comments on those policies.
Just that reading this policy this is for foreign travel
during this school day or school year.
That's an excused absence.
That comment came.
We don't have any of those trips scheduled right now.
We only have a teacher who outside of the district
takes a trip over the summer, which doesn't follow.
So this over the summer doesn't qualify for this policy.
It doesn't does it, Jason?
So so if I'm going to open it up and I'm pretty sure there's a line in there
that says that yet the board doesn't approve it, but they need to get a
they need a board approval in order to promote the trip.
And hence that's the reason it came to the board in the first place.
The board wasn't approving the trip.
They were just approving the ability that for that person to advertise, oh.
Which and there's this. 913.
One 21.1. Okay.
It says says on page two, no staff member may solicit district students
for such trips
without district facilities or on district grounds without board permission.
Yeah. So that's so sentence.
And so that's why we've had people come to the board in recent
years and say, Hey, listen, I'm planning to take a trip
with students outside of this outside the calendar or school year,
but I can't do anything with them
or let them know about it unless I get board approval.
So prior to this, were we approving like the French trip in the summer?
We were just approving the ability to email the students.
Correct. So now what are we doing? The same thing.
We're still continuing with the same thing for approving.
I think So at the board meeting.
I think that was some of the confusion.
Okay, well, why why would we do this?
Why would we let teachers have access and not other people would be
because they have the ability to do so according to this policy.
Okay. Right.
So we don't really need to change it.
I don't think so.
But see any need to change it.
I think we're fine with the way it is. Okay.
I think it's really just closing the loop
because we would bring it back to the policy committee.
So okay, now we can report back at the next board meeting that
we discussed it to review the policies and all is clear and we can.
But so
that's kind of related though to
to 913 non school organizations is next on the list
which is policy 707 use of school facilities
and there's been several questions
from different board members
regarding this
lining up with a consistency between use of school facilities
and the distribution of materials that's stated in policy.
913 for non school organizations.
And we've had you know, there's.
Some following.
And there was you know, there's been there was a question to consider
amending the policy for the school use facilities to be locally based.
I guess we'll just go through that one at a time.
So so I can answer that on.
I don't think so because it's not going any anywhere.
The question is, do we need to vote on the foreign travel?
And I said, I don't think so because it's not going anywhere.
So I can answer or at least speak to locally based.
So if you remember when we revised this policy, we went from
four groups down to three groups.
And we originally had in like 80% of the students needed to be from
from the district.
But I can tell you from a management standpoint,
that's really tough to manage.
We are you talking about 707 or 913. 707.
Seven seven specifically right now.
So sorry, sorry, but keep 913 okay,
is it still related to some of the questions going in order?
I'm sorry. Okay.
Well, I know and I want to go
in order to, but I feel like,
yeah, do this one first. Okay.
Go ahead. I'm sorry, Jason.
Oh, that's all I had to say. So.
So essentially what
one of the
discussions at the board meeting was, go back to
the participants and how many are are or district based or school based.
And that's that's really difficult to manage.
Yeah.
To the point where this group, not all the citizen advisors but the policy
committee made a conscious decision to eliminate that from a revised policy.
Well what Well here were some of my suggestions about that.
So we have the three groups
in this might you might say this is too much.
Can we say that all organizations not based in Derry Township, i.e.
not having the funding
or the support at the home address space in Derry Township will be considered
under the profit organization is subject to a fee schedule.
So you're leaving number two for base in Derry Township
and you're moving anyone outside of Derry Township to number three.
We can.
I mean, that's not hard for people to get around.
All they need is a mailbox in Derry Township.
But what if it's like a what if it's like
a a national organization like Girls on the Run.
What they would be classified as then for profit group then.
Right? Yeah. So I'm not new suggestion.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean we as an administrative we can do whatever we ask.
We're just trying to think of something that's, that's manageable
and I certainly hear what you're saying.
Kathy just
if groups want to get around it, they most likely
will be able to get around it
and answer the girls in the region once again
if they have a sponsor and that sponsor saying, okay, I'm girls in the run,
but I'm Derry Township, Girls in the run and they live in Derry Township there.
Are we then accepting that one as a
as a resident organization
or we going to go with the national headquarters for organizations?
It's tough.
There's there's no easy solution.
Well, the other reason this came up
is because
the Good News Club came to Hershey, and I don't know if you heard about that
and they have a national nationally sponsored organization,
then they're also sponsored sponsored for Dauphin County.
And then they did not have a home base in Derry Township.
So it was brought up that if they're not in Derry Township, they're not local.
Where are they coming
when they're from, like the county and the and the national level?
MM It's difficult to try to regulate
organizations based on geography because then you will
to your point and to what Jason said, it's easy to get an address, a mailbox
and to have a presence in a law firms all the time will have
a shell office office somewhere in New Jersey or Maryland.
So you can practice law there, but there's no real physical presence there.
So, you know, and I think part of the thing with good
schools, too, was not only are not good schools.
So the good news
was whether you wanted to, one, allow them access
and then whether there should be a fee waiver or not, I think it's hard to be.
I mean, your fee waiver allows for boards.
So discretion for a not for profit or a nonprofit.
But the obstacle there is you have to be consistent from nonprofit to nonprofit.
And you certainly don't want to run afoul of any discrimination laws,
you know, or risk, you know, litigation.
So you really have the two issues, the access to use
and then the fee waiver piece,
because you're basically saying everyone is
a for profit is going to pay a fee.
Right.
But if you try to make outside groups for profit,
I think that would be a big hurdle to jump because they'll say,
here's our 501c3 status or here's our not for profit status.
Tell me I'm a profit.
Okay, So that doesn't sound like it's going to work.
Do you want to talk any more about that?
Because I have two other things with this.
Yeah. Sorry. No. So, yeah.
And then Katz. Okay, go ahead.
I was going to address the other specific questions that we had to hear
from other board members.
So another question that we had was how does the seven of seven align
with 913 regarding the distribution of materials?
And, you know, because in 707 we're talking
about the nonprofit organizations and the distribution of
materials, we're talking about non school organizations.
So those could fall into the same category.
But the way that I see it is that, you know,
the facilities use is different.
So, you know, that's that's more of an open forum
than what we have for our distribution of materials.
So that's okay. So that's right.
And that's correct. And they're managing completely different
facilities or management buildings
and grounds and distribution of materials are managed by school.
Our school and community information officer or director or.
So were you talking about like the definitions non school
organizations doesn't match with nonprofit here?
Is that is that the issue?
Well it was there just a question about like you know can
if we're if we're going to let nonprofit organizations
come and use our facilities where we draw the line with distribution of materials.
Yeah.
And one of those questions, like a sub question of that was
if we're prohibiting the distribution of religious materials
as stated in our distribution policy, does that somehow
violate our nondiscrimination clause?
But again, I would go back to it's not a well, open forum.
So we have other restrictions on
our distribution
materials in addition to just the religious component.
So it's not comparable.
And your facilities access is really
that's not the same thing as an entity.
That's a school program or a school sponsoring activity
or an organized pursuant to the school code or board policy.
You know, these are not organizations that have been created
by the school district.
They're not school sponsored.
And so you have a nice definition right now under your 913,
which is more limiting and restrictive than your facilities use.
So you can have people coming in and using your facilities
where there is absolutely no obligation to distribute their material
or to publicize their events.
I know one of the concerns that came up, though, is we should then be consistent
in what we're doing.
So if we have everyone seems to like the way I am.
YWCA so great they have a camp.
If we're going to advertise
that that's not school sponsored or school program or anything else.
So if we shouldn't be allowing those website
or distribution materials, if we're not going to allow
for somebody else, I think that was part of the country.
Yes, that's also part of it. Yes.
And I would agree with that.
You should be consistent
that you should not be able to pick and choose the organizations
that seem to be favored over those that create more of a controversy.
You really need to be consistent. It's all or nothing.
And they have to fall within that definition of your non school groups.
Mm hmm.
But policy wise, there's no there's nothing else for us to to do to.
I don't believe so.
Okay. Okay.
So we'll we're going to put 913. Okay.
There's no changes and no vote
required and focus back on seven and seven.
So, Kathy, what did you have that you wanted to
I or you had attached a model facility use policy.
Yeah.
And I was I liked one, two and three on that good behavior
requirement inclusiveness requirement, promissory requirement.
And I was wondering if we could add that to our use of facilities,
because under guidelines, because the the issue that came up with
having an
outside group come in to use our school building is
what if a group comes in who obviously discriminates
against one class of people over another, Like it's obvious in what they
And so without adding that you are not allowed
to bully ridicule, abuse our students, you must be inclusive of all people
and you must, you know, show the dignity and rights of each child.
We don't have that covered in our facility use,
and that's the only way we can even know they're using the facility
after school hours.
They're still probably targeting our students.
We're going to walk down the hallway into the mall all day purpose rooms.
So I still think they should abide by our policy that we don't
we want inclusiveness and we don't want bullying and harassment.
And so I agree with every word, everything that you're saying.
My my question is, how are we going to manage that?
Will we manage it when we get a complaint?
I know we don't sit and watch.
We don't we're not going to sit in every Wednesday,
330 meeting at the multipurpose room.
But if we get legitimate parent complaints,
you know, emailing us the community feedback or telling,
you know, the principal,
then we might need to show up at one of those to see what's going on.
And we document it and then we go from there.
If we get complaints
or if
we we do an investigation because we're hearing problems.
And who's making that decision? And I'm just asking questions.
Who's making the decision to deny them access to the facility?
Is that an administrative decision or a board decision?
It might have to come to the board.
And that's where I would certainly put it.
That's where
I would put it, because it's the board that's approving the use of the facility.
So if you're going to withdraw that approval, it should be a board decision
and it should be based on legitimate business reasons
or if you're if you're going to include specific guidelines,
you do have under guidelines that I don't there's not a page number,
but it's the last full paragraph that talks about inappropriate behavior,
the conduct of all people who are attending the activity.
You know, there's no inappropriate behavior inside or outside
that's pretty broad.
So you could certainly amend your policy if you wanted to, to provide, you know,
more specifics on these, you know, three bullet or numbers that came from the
model policy.
Or you could attach it as an addendum and refer to,
you know, the district's
code of conduct, the district's other policies that you have, and say
these are the things that we would expect your group using our facility would would
are prohibited. You know, any violations.
I mean, we have security cameras in every hallway outside every building.
So if we got reports and then we investigated
and then if they were administration,
have to write it up and tell the board about it.
And we would have to.
I mean, however, you do report on, you know,
we get reports of students doing all kinds of things and we investigate it.
So this would just be if a group were doing that.
So in in 913, you have a whole section of what is prohibited.
How come we couldn't take that and put that in seven or seven saying
derogatory towards ethnic, religious, racial groups
denigrates religion and things like that If if there's a federal section.
Absolutely.
And then your policies are consistent,
you could cross-reference where was that in 913?
It's just it talks about that.
Prohibited activity inhibiting or prohibits posting and distributing
district property, any literature or material.
I think it's page four.
And to that point further,
do these groups present you with any kind of syllabus
of what their meetings are going to be like and what they're is
it appropriate to ask for that before you give them permission to use the facility.
We have
in the policy that we can get their their financial status and their bylaws?
Right.
But then I to that point, I was going to suggest that we add
that we add that that in addition to their bylaws, you know,
a copy of its bylaws governing documents and any curricular materials
for any program directed primarily towards students.
Because in the
the purpose, the very first sentence of the purpose
is just for the benefits of a sound educational program
to think there should be, like you said, something in there to
disagree.
I don't think it's.
Unreasonable to ask any group outside of the school district
who wants to use our facilities.
Where are you going to be doing here?
And and I think that you certainly reserve the the right to say yes or no
if you don't think it's going to believe the purpose.
Yeah, we kind of went through that whole thing with freedom of speech
and what the Supreme Court decided with the Milford school district case and
like basically if you
we have to approve the good news club, we would have to approve the Satan Club.
So it's an open forum and we've established a precedent
that we allow outside groups.
But I think by adding this,
if you bully our kids or intimidate our kids or harass our kids.
We just thought it would be proactive to ask them,
well, you know, what exactly are you going be doing when you're here?
And so you're not playing
catch up and saying, okay, what was going on?
You know, just to be a little bit more.
Who is just adding that list from policy
913 enough or did you I don't know if anyone reviewed one,
two or three and here it goes into detail of that model policy that was attached.
It goes much farther than that.
Yeah, I like
I mean, I like adding the good behavior and inclusiveness
requirement and the promissory requirement.
And if we if we were to add
just to go back to the dissemination of literature materials and and.
913 you know,
if it
if we add promotes or denigrates a particular religion
or religious practice, I mean, would we lose out even legal?
No, I would have.
It's very different if we're distributing information.
Again, it goes to the point what's an open forum, Right.
So it's very hard to control
the subject matter of what comes in under an open forum.
And when you try to control the subject matter or the content
that you really give rise to the potential for discrimination.
Because once you've opened up your forum, the law says it's open to everybody
and you can't pick and choose then from among philosophies or types of programing.
So I think the better at least the initial thing would be to
to strengthen it in terms of talking about good behavior,
the your inclusiveness, which is a big factor for this group
or the board and the promissory requirement.
And I think that's a good starting point to start you down that path to be able
to have a little more control
over withdrawing somebodies ability to use your facilities.
It does put a burden on the administration to have to investigate complaints.
But the ultimate decision should come from the board
if you're going to withdraw
the opportunity and it should be grounded in a legitimate purpose
which would be established by these three criteria.
I guess I'm I'm just thinking you should
if you're not within the district and you're, you know, in this group
three, that you should go through a petition process to request the usage
and and what you're doing should be
should be clear and I.
I agree. I definitely want to I'm.
Just worried there's any room for just common sense judgment there.
It all has to be all or nothing.
I guess not.
Well, this now I'm speaking as an attorney.
I am not critical of your comment.
What's common sense to me may not be common sense to somebody else.
So I agree. It'd be nice to know.
Have an idea. Well, what are you gonna use this time for?
What do you need this space for? Me. But.
But if you if you start to go down that road,
then you might say, well,
let's just limit it when they're going to be exposing themselves to and not
literally but you know, to students because those are the folks were,
then you start to really manipulate how open the forum is.
It just you just have. To for proactive.
I agree so I so it was is it too much to ask for the curriculum.
Yeah you just you just act so if if requested by the district
such organization must provide the district with a copy of its bylaws.
It says if requested.
And I was going to add governing documents and any curricular materials
for any program directed primarily towards students so that
you can
request it as long as you're not really going to use that information.
Minor denial, but so but you know, but you could not deny it,
but it comes to it comes to a public board meeting under discussion.
And a board member could bring it up that we received this from this.
And that allows the public to understand more of what we're approving.
And we could still approve it
because we have to by law, but we could still discuss it publicly.
Correct me if I'm wrong to be.
I'm trying to visualize the actual form.
Isn't there a place on there that
they have to tell what they're going to use the space for?
So it could be you.
You already have that opportunity.
It may just be strengthening the the requirements
for how those forms are filled out.
Well, we're just saying if requested, like
not everybody attaches their bylaws when they fill out that form.
Right.
So my only concern and Kim, you can jump in here,
are we exposing ourselves to
some liability for requesting it from some and not from others?
You if you request, you must request it from all.
That's what I thought.
It says in here.
If request is we don't requested to everybody, sometimes.
We request from everybody what they're doing.
Yeah, the bylaws.
Yeah, your bylaws are permissive, but I'm more worried
about curriculum content and the subject of the app.
I would probably start again
with the starting point of trying to get more information in the form
of how that why that what the uses for and if they just say it's for a meeting.
Well we need more information.
You know,
I would probably start there as a way to try to tweak out a little more information
from everybody.
I mean, here's the other thing is, I mean, I agree with you about asking for,
but Hershey is still hockey falls under number two nonprofits.
And then you're going to ask Hershey
if you're happy to give you all their curriculum and practice plans
for using the grass field every Wednesday night at 530.
Like you have to understand that by asking one organization, you're also asking
the other 30 who come to us every year annually for the last 15 years
to give you everything.
And that's a burden upon an organization like mine.
Right?
Well, the other thing that worries me from a legal perspective, it's like it's
like sometimes when you know somebody has a medical condition,
you don't really want to know that they have a medical condition
and you certainly don't want to know what that is, because once you know,
if you deny them something, how are you going to say,
oh, that didn't influence my decision?
Right? It's hard. It's just a crazy hurdle.
I mean, it does say on the form, event, name and specific detailed information
about the event, complete event details needed for processing
and approval of the event.
But it's one line I would I would expand that. Yes.
Because the ones we've looked at it, it might just say a meeting with,
you know, brownies or Girl Scouts or the board could say
they're not going to approve it till they get that filled out correctly.
Is that fair or with more detail or detail?
And I'm sorry you were going to make it up.
Oh, no.
I was just going to say, I don't necessarily think you have to, you
know, cite chapter and verse of everything you're you're doing but, you know,
just a general idea of and not something
that you have to file every time.
Maybe maybe just for the first time that you're
looking for usage.
Yeah.
I think if you at some point, if you feel that
you're not getting the information, that's really helpful in guiding the discussion
or the approval process with the form, then you can talk about, well,
could we require some additional materials that are,
you know, maybe not to hugely overburden
some or gives us too much information that we don't want,
but that might be more helpful, at least for public discussion,
discourse and approval.
I have one more question I want to ask
under the application evaluation on page five,
is it
I wanted to know if we could add something about applications
to be renewed
every year.
So so that it's not assumed, but is that necessary
because they mean they fill out a date,
but it's not explicit.
And I mean, are there any groups that use
our facilities from year to year without filling it out every year?
Not not to my knowledge.
Okay.
They that's what I was thinking, that they fill out a new application every year.
Okay.
But they can put multiple dates.
They could say like every Tuesday of blah, blah, blah.
So it could be for the whole year.
But then when July, August rolls around, they have to start over again.
Okay. Okay.
I just want to make sure that that was in place.
But you could also include that on your form that just simply says
this form, you know, expires such and such a day and that, you know,
just it can be just printed on there and is subject to renewal every year.
Oh there was a whole discussion I your email Jason
about what is nonprofit and right because we talked about the tax code.
Yes and I know that the Joyce Sports Foundation ran a free clinic
for the rec organizations to try to figure that out.
And you as a district said that you were okay
with the EIA number on file and the nonprofit status
at the Pennsylvania Department of State, which is a lot less burdensome
than going through the entire process over five of a one CC three application.
So I do we need to clarify that in here or
because this year everyone understands it
because we just had this whole discussion with amongst the rates next year.
I don't know if they're going to understand that.
So I do know mine.
Once again, this is my understanding when someone applies something that
that's a conversation that the buildings and grounds department or whoever is in
charge of of that application process explains to them.
Oh, do you
think that's an administrative guidelines or something?
So the administrative guidelines are constantly being updated
because this policy is constantly being updated. Yeah.
So I can't share with you exactly what they say right now, but
that's something that I know Mike and I talked about and and relayed to Mr..
And I just don't want a rec organization
to go through the 501 C3 status when that is
not what we're asking for while only asking for the state and the EIA.
So I have no problem adding that in the nonprofit area.
I'm thinking of the dark side now because it's like,
do you want to make it easier
for some nonprofits to say, Oh, I'm a nonprofit now?
You know,
some might believe it might think, Oh, I can't apply because I don't have 501c3.
So it might keep the state and Clubs of America out as opposed to.
So I would probably just even
allow it in the discussion because they all they had to do
is email you for clarification, which is what I did.
Correct.
I hope nobody hears with the same club.
I just that's an example.
And I did have another big issue to bring up.
I do not think we need to turf
field managers anymore.
So so we don't.
So I think unless it changed, they are optional.
Okay. So
so I do think there are some events, Kathy, that we absolutely
would still want them to be here.
Well, what here's what happens is that we require that
I thought we required that you have a and a field manager at the turf fields.
Not anymore that that was unless and I'll go back and look when I'm done talking.
But I think three or four years ago we actually changed that
because we were going to charge a turf replacement
fee in lieu of possibly having a turf field manager.
So the field manager must be present.
Yes, they must be present because this is what happens.
We will have an organization come
and not number two nonprofit organization,
and they'll request that her field and they'll request a waiver for fees.
We require a turf manager.
Then we, the school district, ends up paying the turf manager
to stand there for $30 an hour, plus taxes and fees.
When because we waived that, but we require it.
So I think it's a waste of money because, number one,
we're going to replace the turf field in two years.
And number two, we have security cameras everywhere.
So if there were ever there were any damage to the field,
we would catch it at the next use, which is typically what happens.
I don't think we need somebody $30 an hour standing there.
I've seen it staring at the field for 4 hours.
I think it's a waste of money
because we end up paying it
because we waive the fee.
I just I saw what happened this summer.
Jason,
It's a great gig being a turf manager,
I'm, you know, I'm looking for work, I think.
No, you're kidding.
Tim's leaving December 31st, and we don't want her to leave.
I don't think you'd want me to be your turf manager.
$30 an hour is a big cut from a lawyer's fee, though, isn't it?
Sorry. I'm sorry.
You're trying to run a meeting on an agenda.
What's a you don't do?
It doesn't say that they have to have a field manager present.
And isn't that. So?
Nowadays, I'm pretty sure that we talked about this language before, though,
and it might be under the fee schedule and not necessarily in the policy,
and it could be just the waiver part that I'm thinking of.
But in actuality it's a lot more than $30.
Well rate because taxes is Medicare, Social Security.
So go ahead.
And say it says that the
field manager requirement of fee may be waived by the athletic director.
Some of that cover.
Maybe.
A paragraph.
Yeah.
I don't know why. This summer I saw that we had a fee.
Yeah, I thought so.
I thought we talked about.
So you don't think it's happening as much as I think it's happening?
Oh, no.
I mean.
We're getting a turf manager to stand there, and then we rarely.
See an event where the athletic director has waived the requirement of the turf
field manager.
But according to the policy, they they have that ability to do so.
It's just some instances that the board waive the fee.
I just think it's and the other thing is that the turf field at the track is open
sunup to sundown anyway for anyone to come a place
like football on there, they don't need board approval.
So we bought, board approved somebody make them have a field manager
to pay $30 an hour when I can go out there with field hockey girls.
Right now no one's on it and use it. So.
So no.
So that's a different what the the board did was approved the use of the track,
not the use of the field. So
so if people are using the field without paying for it,
then that's an issue that that we need to know about
because that's that's not the purpose of opening up the track.
But I'm. Glad that we know. No. Area, no.
Well, I
think it's great for kids who want to go practice shots and.
Because they don't want the SAT on a grass field.
And want to play field hockey, you need the turf.
But but that's not the place to do it.
Okay.
So you don't think this needs changed or what should I do
when everything comes to approval? Just be more aware
that I don't think we should waive a fee and then pay for it or.
That that's I mean, that's your decision.
I mean,
the athletic director
has the ability to waive it if they don't think it's necessary for an event.
But I think the big tournament, you probably want to have someone,
a district person there. Okay.
I'm talking about something I saw that was very small.
Well, and that's why I think we added it.
And once again, these are several years ago that this language was was added. But,
you know,
stuff waiving the fees or, you know, or have a conversation
the athletic director on what gets waived and what doesn't get waived,
which I'd be more than happy to do.
I just need some direction. Well, I agree with you.
Big tournaments need a field manager.
But this is this is something very small.
I would suggest that you just talk to Scott and find out
how many times he has waived.
And for what you know,
what what factors looks into if he does waive it, would that help clarify
and he this school this use of facilities does go from
being a grounds to him because I thought it just.
Seemed more.
Typical when somebody fills out a facility use form,
it goes to building and grounds.
But Scott also looks at as well.
So it goes through his fields, Correct. Okay.
So maybe he just doesn't isn't aware that he can waive it possibly.
I don't know.
That's always a possibility.
Let's find out more. Yeah.
You could always say we would waive the fees pending
approval of the athletic director
waiving.
The field manager fee for the field
manager presence.
Well, that.
Let's find out if he ever waives it.
And if he does, when. Yeah.
The criteria that he.
Okay.
And then I just had a question about the attachments for the fees.
We have two links, two attachments.
And I'm just wondering we can eliminate one.
Because we can't until January I think the second or third.
Yeah.
So but once yes, to answer your question,
we will once the new fee structures.
Stay the same,
they're not starts.
One 319
okay.
Okay. So
do we.
The only changes then that we are
suggesting are the
good behavior requirement, inclusiveness and promissory requirement.
Are we going to put that as an attachment or under general regulation?
As I was thinking, under the general regulations,
I'd say incorporated into the policy. Okay.
All right.
And do you want me to take a stab at that, Trish?
Yes, please.
And then the other note I had was to revise the form
request to encourage more detail on the intended use and maybe
add a comment that the application expires at the end of the school year. Yes.
Yes. And it's under three for the promise or requirement.
If you could just make sure that our nondiscrimination language matches up.
Okay.
Do you edit that form?
Jason? No.
Who does it?
Buildings and grounds. Okay.
So if we would have edits to it, would we just send it to them or I would. Mark
So once Kim has her suggestions together, I'll work with buildings
and grounds to make sure that form matches what, what we've discussed.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I guess I will
accept a motion to revise
policy 707 use of school facilities to include the good behavior
requirement, inclusive requirement and promise three requirements
under the general regulations and the other modifications.
As noted
regarding the expiration of the form.
And what was the other thing?
I think little more detail on the intended purpose.
More detail on intended purpose. Thank you.
So my suggestion would once are these corrections are made,
we bring it back to the November
policy meeting so everyone can see exactly what was changed. Yes.
And to make recommendations or modifications from there.
That's just my my suggestion.
That way you can look at the form
and you can see
new language and you can see what the new policy would look like.
So that we certainly do vote on that.
So or no, I don't.
I don't think so because it's staying in the committee.
Okay. Senate committee. Okay.
And the only question I would have is if we're saying
that form expires at the end of the school year.
Some groups carryover in the summer. Correct.
So it might be annual from data submission, action, something like that.
I'll send it to you and Trish before it goes any further just so you
to make sure that we're I'm okay that I'm on the correct page.
It's fabulous. Thank you.
Okay.
Moving on to policy 249 Bullying and cyberbullying.
Yes, yes.
Sure.
I was the one that had requested the review of 707
and 913 for the comparison.
I just want to clarify, because I was confused based on the conversation that
the reason I brought this forward
was because I was concerned the first week or so of school
a parent brought forward that there was
papers sent home by Boy Scouts and held the kids
running series, and it was also posted on our website.
And then when in reviewing the policies,
the use of school facilities, we're not able to
limit the use of school facilities for any group, you know, based on it
because this was following the good news club.
But then and that's board approval required
for but on the dissemination of literature and materials,
that is at the discretion of an authority of the superintendent.
And it does limit
the any religious, ethnic
or derogatory toward any, you know, ethnic or religious or racial group
and promotes or denigrates a particular religion or religious practice.
And I just want to make sure that the same things that
held us
to keeping an open forum and approving
from the Supreme Court ruling under use of school facilities, that that wouldn't
also apply to the dissemination of literature materials.
And because we have two different
avenues of approval for how those get put out.
So I'm sorry, Lindsay,
you want the approval process to be the same.
Nobody's asking me.
The reason I was asking is that I was concerned that it was going
to be inadvertently setting a precedent that if we're allowing a group
to use the school facility and under the administrative
guidelines of the use of school facilities,
those groups who have approval to use facilities are also permitted
to say, attend back to school night and have a table there and do that.
But then underneath policy 913
There are
different requirements and restrictions
and it's at the discretion of the superintendent.
So if we've approved good news club
and Boy Scouts who fall
under the same category and use the school facilities
and then both of those organizations come and ask for
a distribution of literature materials,
do not does the same open forum rule not apply?
No. And this was part of our discussion that this
the dissemination of information and the the non school
organizations groups that's stricter than the open forum.
So just because someone's allowed use of the facilities does not automatically
allow them to disseminate information or have a presence at back.
To school night. Okay.
So then
for the dissemination of literature, anything that's posted on the website,
shared on social media,
any of those things can fall under different criteria, Correct?
Okay.
I just wanted to make sure so that we didn't end up having a group
that has facility use approval.
Call it like saying we're being discriminated
very in our distribution of materials practice. Exactly.
I think you might have missed that part of our discussion.
I was just not following from one to the other.
That's okay.
So having to do with the travel and. Sure.
Yeah.
No, from my my perspective, from a legal perspective is the use of facilities
and the board approval of anyone to use the facilities based on your open
does not automatically mean that those entities
have the same privileges to post or disseminate information.
There's a different threshold, a different definition of
and would have to be somebody.
If it's non school, it can only be part you know, there are limited circumstances.
Okay.
I want to make sure that was clear for the record. Yes.
Thank you. Thank you.
Okay.
Policy 249 Bullying, cyberbullying.
So this policy is is up for us to review.
It's supposed to be reviewed by the policy committee every three years.
And this is one of the priorities that the
not only the school board as a full committee,
but also the policy committee is made to put it on
our radar as part of ensuring safe schools.
And so I just wanted to open it up to see if anybody had.
I have some suggestions too, but if anybody had any thing
they wanted to add or comment on us.
I mean, one thing that I that I noticed and I,
I asked
Lisa miller about it, her presentation
is that our definition seems different.
And I know this is a
language and it's language based on PR code,
but it's language that seems to differ
from all the other literature
out there, because every everything else about bullying
includes that.
It must be aggressive, an imbalance of power and repetition.
And, you know, we note the repetition part of it.
We say bullying is severe, persistent or pervasive,
and has the effect of doing any of the following, substantially interfering
with a student's education, creating a threatening environment,
and substantially disrupting the orderly operation of the school.
But we don't have any
there's no reference to
being aggressive behavior or having an imbalance of power.
So I don't know if
adding any of those somewhere in the definition would be helpful,
especially when teachers are going over this with students.
So it's more clear because I you know, I've heard from a lot of
parents when their kids are having trouble, sometimes
the kids are just told to figure it out, work it out amongst themselves.
And if there's an imbalance of power,
you know, not not necessarily every case is going to be bullying.
But if there was an understanding that there's an imbalance of power,
maybe it would be more helpful for the students and the teachers
and the parents involved.
So my understanding is this is the legal definition of bullying
and can perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure this
this definition of bullying is consistent from pretty much
from district to district to district.
So I absolutely understand what you're saying.
And I'm just.
Any time we're changing something that's based on school code
or a legal definition and adding our own definition,
it just makes me makes me nervous and it makes me extremely nervous
for administrative team that's trying to enforce a policy
based on code, which Derry Township School District
decided to change what we believe the policy is.
So perhaps it's not the legal definition.
This is what I'm used to and
to seeing from my time as an administrator.
So just my thoughts, not saying I don't agree with you,
it just makes me nervous and it makes me nervous for administrative team.
If if we're changing a legal definition
into something that we we like that we can.
Definitely check on that.
But I don't have a problem with adding bullying is severe persistent pervasive
could be is could be aggressive behavior
in some instances is an imbalance of power because that just helps
somebody identify and that they can't actually sometimes help themselves.
So I wouldn't have a problem with adding it.
It could look like it.
But but I do.
Once again, I go back to I'm I'd get really nervous
for our administrative team if if they're telling parents this is that
this is the definition a parent goes and looks up what the legal
and it doesn't match so so one solution to this would be if Commonwealth
of Pennsylvania has a bullying definition, that should be our definition.
Okay.
However What we can do is under guidelines,
then we can add the aggressive behavior, the imbalance of power
under under our guidelines.
I think it's this is not at all.
And like that, the any definition that you would see for harassment
or discrimination under the category of harassment,
but then you will see examples of behavior
that could rise to that level and it would fall under the guidelines.
And the same imbalance of power is used
as a factor to determine whether something is harassment,
because when you have harassment among coworkers, you want to know,
is there an imbalance of power because that would lend credence to it.
So I think it's these are aggressiveness and imbalance of power would be factors
that would be considered as to whether something rises to that level.
But it's not I don't believe it is clearly the legal definition.
I'll check on the legal definition and I can email all of you
as to that, but I certainly do not have a problem.
Most policies will give examples of the type of behavior
that could rise to that level, and it's a guideline only.
It's a definitive list,
but we could include in that guideline or examples those particular cases.
Just within the last year, I asked the policy to committee to add
examples of sexual harassment, harassment to the policy and to two policies.
Have an addendum now of examples, because my biggest thing is that
I don't think people identify it correctly.
That's why they don't report. It's underreported.
So I actually found it on one of the federal websites of some examples
and we added it.
So could we do something this instance similarly that I mean,
yes, I think guidelines of what it looks like.
Absolutely.
I think it's to take it one step further.
I think it would be great if maybe the administrative team could
could work on examples of what looks like and what does not.
Look like. Or what is and what isn't.
Because think a lot of times people think just
and it's unfortunate any time a kid is picked on.
But there's a difference
between a one time incident that was that was minor a name calling
and something that is severe and persistent and and pervasive.
So I think, you know, that
this does qualify or this does not qualify.
Examples would would be great for everybody.
I agree with you, because this is an issue that comes up on
social media a lot on the Facebook pages around the community.
And I think that we are trying to educate so that we have clear guidelines.
And I think that would be great if you could come up
with like an addendum to this and then bring it back to us.
Would that be good? Tricia Yeah, that would be great.
I mean, and even like
if we could add resources at the end of the policy for bullying
because a lot of the like, you know, the the Pennsylvania
Bullying Prevention Toolkit, which is on the Department
of Education for Pennsylvania, is like, you know, Section one, what is bullying?
And it has those three things listed.
And then it has it has examples.
And, you know, there's another the
the Pacers national Bullying prevention website has conflict versus bullying.
What's the difference? So there's lots of good sources.
So similar to what we just did with John, that was your idea
to add some of those sites on, We can certainly add that
to the bottom of this policy.
Well, so Tricia or anybody who wants links added, we we we can do that.
I have no problem with that.
Bullying has become a legal term of art and it's probably
one of the most misused words that we now have.
Like just everyone will often say, I'm in a hostile work environment.
Well, that's a term of art that you may or may not have a hostile work.
Same thing here.
We are hearing more
and more complaints among adults in the workforce about bullying.
And sometimes you just think really, you know.
But that's just it's become an overused term.
So I think the more we can do to kind of put it help people identify
which pockets it belongs in, the better to that.
And I had brought up when we had talked about this a couple of years ago, was
maybe
adding in something in there that talked about, you know, people
who or anyone who intentionally
made false accusations of bullying
and any consequences that would arise from that.
I'd be very similar to what you see in a discrimination complaint, too.
If you and.
That could happen to students or staff.
It does.
The guidelines refers to our code of student conduct, which is our handbook.
Correct.
I'm wondering if there's there is there any are there violations
in our handbook related to false accusations?
No Not specifically to board.
This is making false reports reporting there.
There are guidelines and
it's listed.
And I think lot to see what happens.
Okay.
So it is a potentially a level two offense.
Okay.
Offense.
Well, and then one thing that I wanted to know if we could
add to is
that similar to the language that we just added under the under 806
for the child abuse thing about the posters,
you know, if there's a thing that if we could add
under the delegation of responsibility,
if we can add
a blurb about the superintendent, our designee shall ensure that the poster
developed by the Department of Education setting the toll free number
for the people in prevention consultation in line be posted
just like we do some of the other posters.
So I know that's been a request from a lot of people within that community
that I've been hearing.
Was that related?
Do we just add that because of safe and supportive schools were what?
What was that?
It was it it was for the child abuse about sexual abuse.
Okay. Yeah.
So they have a new poster that they are requiring.
So they do have posters related to bullying.
And then, well, there's you know, there's there's this one.
So this is the one that
that I've gotten feedback from people in the community
that they want to see in the hallways. Yeah.
Or put them I'm not saying this is going to solve all the problems.
We do have that one in in some of the buildings.
I'm not sure if we have it in all of nutrition.
Okay.
It may
help to know what do you want to come to the microphone.
Thank you.
Miss Wade is here.
Thank you.
If it may help to add something about
specifically calling the building level administrator,
I think if a student came to a parent and said that I was told
that I should handle this on my own, I think that would be absolutely
outside of the line of what I would ever say to a kid.
So a child, when they're under stress and duress,
may not have completely understood what they've been told.
And so it's time for the grown ups to get together and help that child understand.
And so to me
I understand the bullying policy and hotline is one thing,
but I'm closest to them and I can get to them the fastest
and help them straighten it out.
And it helps to bring order more immediately.
The policy says the board encourages students who have been bullied
to promptly report such incidents to the building principal or designee.
Do you think we should something to that?
Yeah, maybe something
like if a parent feels that the child is not has not received an accurate response,
that a parent communication or something like that, like
I would never say to a kid, handle this on your own
and every parent should know that that's not what happened.
So the kid is stressed out. We need to reconvene indicator.
So you're saying the kids should be attentive, then the parent should as well.
Parent may follow up with confusion if the kid expresses confusion.
Well, I mean, they're under the parental supervision
until they graduate, even if they're 18 at graduation, according to state law.
So they are our minors until we get them to graduation.
Right. So so we can call the principal as well.
So I like adding that. Yeah, that would be great.
I think it would make it better.
Thank you.
I have a I don't know if I'm on or not.
I just had something to add
and I don't know how any policy is going to change this or not.
And you say you encourage students to report.
But I kind of come from a background of special needs kids.
And those kids either can't report
or they're relying on other people to do it, I guess.
Is there sort of verbiage we can put in here, you know, to
to have that aspect addressed?
Because, you know, not everyone is verbal or everyone is,
you know, able to advocate for themselves.
So I wonder if that goes to right
where we were adding encourage students who are who have been bullied.
And then we're saying, I don't know how you're going to word parents.
And then we need to talk about
kind of the bystander,
the student who witnesses it is encouraged to report bullying.
Yeah. Oh, and I don't know how you would word it, but.
Could just say all instances of bullying should be reported promptly.
So instead of who have been bullied or
or have witnessed instances of bullying to promptly report
because that covers than a bystander for someone who's
nonverbal or cannot.
What do you think of that?
Yeah, and maybe I mean, maybe it will empower some of our students
and parents to speak out more because I know I mean,
I think that's really at the core of our challenge
is empowering other kids to be up to standards, to
to stand up for, you know, their friends that can't speak up for themselves.
And how do we you know, how do we do that?
How we how do we give kids that confidence
to make sure that they're going to be heard?
So should we add that
the board encourages students who have been bullied or who have
who have witnessed bullying to promptly report such incidents to the building?
Principal? The board encourages parents
of students who have been bullied, who or who or who have witnessed
bullying to report at is second sentence
that says the parents as well.
Both.
So we're saying students and parents just repeat the sentence.
Okay,
You're
giving parents the permission to report it.
And I would imagine some parents of younger children
would automatically do that.
Parents of older children may realize their son
or daughter is already reported and not feel the need.
So certainly, you know, you're just inviting parents to have
that opportunity to also report if they're concerned.
Did you have anything else, Tricia?
I guess I just wanted to know if we
and this isn't I don't know if this is really something that
for for a policy committee, but since the code of student conduct
is referenced in the guidelines for the bullying policy, I'm wondering
if that needs to be made more clear in the student handbooks.
Because if you go through the student handbooks for for each of the
the schools, you know, it about bullying prevention.
It talks about the dress code, it talks about the elementary school,
mentions the positive schoolwide behavior.
The the middle school,
I think, says calls it a discipline code.
And so it doesn't really look like
it's not super clear to me as a parent. Like
if I go look at the table of contents, like what is the code of conduct?
I know we talk a lot about it.
It's the Coco principles, but
do we need to make it more specific?
And the discipline code outlines things not to do.
I'm just wondering if there should be something.
That should be like here.
Here are the expectations to be, you know,
a productive student every day.
And and it would
include, you know, respecting other people.
You know, we expect you to stand up for people that can't speak up for themselves.
Things just just some some basic expectations of how to be a good human.
And not that the Coco principles doesn't do that,
but the Coco principles are so vague, and it's not clear
to a lot of people that that is our code of conduct.
So it's like I said, I don't know if it's something necessarily
it's not really for us to do. It's more administrative guidelines.
But since we reference this code of student conduct,
I just wanted to put that out there.
Well, when you are talking about that, it reminds me of the good behavior
requirement that we want to put in our facility use.
It's the same thing we want, but we want our students to do that.
Right.
We we want we don't want them to engage in physical,
emotional or psychological mistreatment, bullying, like degrading,
excluding people, making them feel ashamed.
So is that another
something we attached to this policy?
I think that's a separate issue.
I think what and could be wrong.
But Tricia, what I think you're saying is it's not clear
what the code of student conduct is or where to find that.
So I think to address that issue, we can see the code of student contact
as outlined in each student or an example
is the student handbook or each level student handbook
as being the student code of conduct, at least
letting people know where what to refer to
as far as what's in there, that that's a that's a work in progress.
And that's not necessarily something for the policy committee
to do or get involved in per se.
But I think I think your point has merit not only in this policy
but other policy where it references the code of conduct.
Most people,
I should say most
people being in education over so many years.
I know code of conduct equals student handbook, but
that's just because they've been here for so long.
I don't think most parents parents understand that, right?
Yes, I think most parents are expecting like this is.
Code of conduct.
Right.
Of how to conduct yourself as a student in the school district.
So what shall we say?
The student, the code of conduct, the code of student conduct,
which can be found in each building handbook.
And even so, even in the handbook.
I could be wrong, Laurie,
but it doesn't necessarily say that the student code of conduct, right?
That's what that's my point, that.
The handbook is the code of conduct. Like everything in there.
Can you put an electronic link to it as part of your resources.
Right on the.
Because you're going to be listing resources.
I would just put an electronic link unless and even if it's broken down
from middle school Handbook high school, just identify it, put a.
Link three or three links.
Then if they're.
Provided the links don't change from to year, correct?
Yeah, right.
And then my point is that I would just want more clarification in the handbooks.
So I think I think
I guess, I
can say they agree that the handbook could use some revision.
It's it's ready for some revision
and I am happy to take responsibility for that.
I Just want to say on behalf of administrators
they think we that they teach us in administrative
when we get our degrees as they talk about our responsibility.
And it's and acting in loco parentis.
And it's such an important part of my interaction with children
is that I have guidelines where I can deal with the child individually,
but also flexibly enough that I can help to make a decision
that's reasonable for that person in that context, in that moment
so long lists of very prescriptive guidelines are not necessarily appropriate
for a ninth grade girl versus a senior boy.
And they would be they would be subject to the same code of conduct.
And so I appreciate and take a great deal of responsibility
for my myself in making that determination.
And so that's the to me, the importance of the code of conduct
is that I'm I'm within that but still have some flexibility.
Thank you for that.
So in other words, we don't have a true code of conduct.
We have a handbook that discusses as.
Well what we do.
I mean, that's that's the hard part. We, we do.
It's just not clearly identifiable.
So it's in.
Yeah.
Not I don't think any of them actually say student code of conduct.
It's more implied.
I couldn't You're.
Right. I'm at 12 years.
I'm reading student code of conduct.
But maybe in my just in my head.
And how do we go about revisiting the handbook?
Do you do that at your summer retreats like have each.
The building administrative teams.
Ah, that's of their tasks.
During the summertime we yeah.
Get together and we review it and we talk about it.
Did you do it this last summer? Yes.
The other thing that comes to my mind is every
the school district is required annually to provide certain notices to families.
Parents and students.
Normally that's done on your website, but if you are not a proactive
parent or student, you're going to just gloss right over that.
You're really not going to pay attention.
Most kids won't look at a code of conduct or their parents
until someone gets in trouble, and then it's like, Oh no, what happens?
And so but I do think it doesn't hurt to be clearer
and have a stand out maybe on your Web site or whatever
it is, code of conduct or handbook or Coco principles or whatever,
so that annually people can say, here it is,
you don't have to go through 20 links to try to find it.
It just is clearer and more accessible that we do send it out through zip slip.
You got to acknowledge that you received it annually and it's a
there's a link there. Okay.
We also have and this is neither here nor there really,
but we also on the first day of school, a PowerPoint presentation
that all homeroom teachers go over that highlight for the kids
the code of conduct and where to find it and what it is, what it's basically about.
Now, of course,
August 28th
to March 2nd, that's a long haul for a kid to remember that.
But we do make them aware
in person.
Well, that's that was my next question, because it says on here that you
will annually review with the students so that what you consider
annual review the first week of school in homeroom you have a PowerPoint.
And do you actually go through this policy with them?
Is it actually pulled up or how does it address?
I think I think more or less it's kind of kid friendly language.
It's, you know, not not policy.
But we say to them what the behavioral expectations are.
And we talk about the principles.
We talk about the different kinds of violations.
And for me, you know, we always stress that it's a it's about being respectful
and listening to
to your the adults in your world and kind of making it age appropriate.
And is this done elementary through 12th grade?
I can't speak to the elementary, but when I worked
at the middle school with the school that we did.
At the high school, does it I would.
Assume most districts do it. So I can't
speak
on on
behalf of the other buildings,
but I know in my past experience it was done at the beginning of the year
and usually the middle of the year as well,
especially at the middle school level, where kids
have a tendency to need a refresher Yeah, middle of the year.
Well, we there's just some
talk among the community periodically that we don't do anything
and that we the first day of school should do this, this and this.
So I didn't know that we did something.
I wasn't exactly sure what it was.
But we we don't do nothing
for secondary students, specifically middle school and high school.
We don't do. Nothing. We do review it.
I'd like to.
And you would address these things constantly, right?
It's it's a constant reminder of certain at certain days.
I'm sure it is, yes.
And when we we start to see a situation, we can pull kids
and say that this is escalating, you know,
So we talk to them about it so they understand.
Okay.
And again, if it's a parent is struggling saying, we didn't know about this,
I think I would be comfortable answering the question,
Well, here's when your kid had opportunity
to learn about it and again,
giving them multiple opportunities as they are still kids,
they don't necessarily process everything as an adult as we were.
So, again, my philosophy is they may not be able
to relay the story from my office to your door.
And if you don't like the story that you're being at your door,
you know, give my office a call and we'll see that we can find the middle
ground to help the kid understand that we don't We believe they should be treated
with dignity and respect, and we'll help them to get that right.
Thank you.
And we'd like to think adults process that information, too, Right Reword.
I just wanted to comment on your education.
This is the district may develop
which the word may sounds open
ended like they may or they may not.
So now, if we want to make that more definitive, where are you under age?
Under education
at the end of the second page?
Oh, and in church
once again, I mean, there's two links attached to that.
So without looking at the links, I'm pretty sure this is taken right from pre
school code saying that you do have the ability to
so pretty much when policies are developed.
As I shared with some of our other ones, we give you what is recommended.
You can certainly
change things if you want to just know anytime you add the word shower
that does create and I'm not saying we don't, that does create a burden on
the curriculum and instruction portion because once it shower,
then that means we have to do it and we always have to do it.
Otherwise we're in violation of policy saying we don't.
But anytime we we add something that
creates something that we most likely have to take away
if we don't already have it in place.
We have 9 minutes.
Yeah. Okay.
So do we want to rework this and keep this in policy
and bring it back to November and look at it again?
Well, the revision is you're going to come up with examples behavior, right?
The administration. Yeah.
So do you how much time do you need for that?
And just looking back at Dr.
Winslow and Miss Wade, do you think we can have it?
I think are next meetings November 12th, 12th.
Do you think we can do it by that time or.
You're tweaking the language,
you're adding an addendum, giving examples, you're adding resources,
you're adding something about posters
to be posted, and then maybe at least
thinking about part of your resources, including a link to the code of conduct.
We'll give it our best shot. Yeah. How's that?
Let us know if it doesn't work out.
Okay. Thank you.
All right.
And then we only have 8 minutes now to talk about these next policies.
And I guess without going into each policy
specifically
at this point for a time,
you know, these these policies were drafted.
The gender identity and expression and the policy specifically
were drafted in the context of safe schools
and making sure that
in my mind at least I can speak personally to me
with if everybody feels like they belong and have a place in the school
and that everybody is valued, then then that makes our school
safer and more welcoming for everyone.
So to me, this is this, this is a safe schools
issue is to to make sure that we have a policy in place, to make sure that
our students that are on the margins of society
are included, even if they're not included
on the federal government level or in other parts of the community,
to know that they can come to school and feel safe and welcome.
Here is something that I feel is important
for us to address. So
I guess we still need to talk about this policy specifically,
but if I could just get a feel for people to see if we want to move forward or not.
And legally we have come here.
So I don't know if this is something that if everybody is on board
with these policies, we could send to her for review
and then maybe come back and talk about them some more.
So can I.
Please.
Clarify, was so you're
not going to see mingle, but what you're focused on
is to make sure that all students and all employees
and anyone who enters our buildings feel valued, safe and and welcomed.
Appreciate it. Yes.
So so
would there be any absolute opposition if that's what we're about to
creating one policy that is inclusive
of of all groups, instead of calling out,
per se, individual types of groups?
Well,
I think the idea of gender identity and expression is that
they have the highest rate of suicide and they're the ones who hide the most.
And Without a policy that specific toward transgender students.
I worry that they don't know where to go like this policy
says, you know, call the superintendent or principal to set up.
I mean, it kind of gives guidelines
specifically to this group of students who might need that.
But without that, how would they know what to do in our school district? So
putting it with all students, does it make sense to me,
because this is a special population,
students who are at high risk for suicide in 40% of the population.
So it's it's it's giving them specific guidelines.
I would also add that I think there are specific issues
directly related with transgender, such as using their names
and pronouns and restroom availability that wouldn't apply to other groups.
Sure.
So I have I mean, I'm not concerned with that at all.
But but those are administrative regulations.
So and we don't we don't have to do that.
But about three or four years ago,
we went through our policies and really out a lot of what was in policy
and what was was actually guidelines.
So, I mean, once again, it's
it's a different board, different different times.
If you want to start putting
guidelines back into policy, we certainly can.
But there was a major emphasis a few years ago,
get rid of guidelines from policies.
I did like that one.
I mean, if we're if we're looking at that, I did like
the one attachment
with school district at Haverford.
It was just two paragraphs, but
that made the point, but then also had administrative regulations.
So what is this further on gender identity?
The gender gender identity.
Which school was.
That?
Haverford.
So it had a basic overview of it, but then it had regulations in the regulations.
That's not something typically that we put out online.
But but they did.
So as far as what to do.
And if that's the direction the board wants to go, that
that would be my suggestion because once it's in policy,
it's not followed to the tee, then you can get yourself in trouble. So
you're saying that you have administrative regulations on pronouns for students?
No. That would be something that we would we would have to create.
Because right now.
Right, there's nothing.
And without anything, I'm not comfortable with that.
So the policy he's referring to for Haverford
and I listed it, but I didn't supply it as a as a attachment.
But it does have an guide
regulations attached to the policy which would have those specific.
Yeah, but my concern was adding the guidelines to policy is
if it's not followed one time in violation of the policy and and
and that I don't think that's the real intent of of every single policy
is that I gotcha it's more like here this is what we're going to do to support
and this is how we're going to follow things.
Kim I could be.
No, it's true.
It's semantics.
You're you're working towards the same goal where
you would have those administrative regulations and guidelines.
But but they're not a part of your official policy statement.
You could I like the idea that you either link to them or include them.
It's the same thing as your addendum examples for the bullying, right?
So I think that if you had a more
general philosophical statement, which is your policy,
but then you break it out in terms of how that policy is going to be implemented
and followed by the administration, That's very helpful,
even though there's nothing in writing.
Cathy There are memos from our office to the administration
from probably four years ago, I think, of the use of pronouns
that was under the prior federal administration, which was much more
receptive and
accepting of, you know, a dealing with the transgender.
So I think also because the federal government
is still in so much flux about that doesn't mean we don't address it,
but we keep it out of policy, keep the regulations
in our administrative control, because that gives us
we can do what we want to do and not worry so much about having a policy
that runs afoul with.
Yeah, I don't think yeah, I'd be hesitant to say that anyone would have an issue.
What I would have issue with anyone who would have an issue
of not treating people fairly and with respect and openness.
And I think that's what this this says
how we go about that may change over time.
And to Kim's point, that's why I would prefer regulations instead of.
So I'm I'm 100% in favor of this as long as it's public
so that a transgender student and his or her family could view it
when they're coming in.
And that's
and that's what they were saying, we would we would include we typically.
Don't have a guideline. Yeah.
We typically don't include the links to administrative regulations.
But in this case and we have some other policies that are like that.
707 with facility usage, I think the regular the fee schedule,
that's an administrative guideline, but that's considered regulation. No.
Well I didn't read this policy.
So the one you said from Haverford.
So that's an example.
Yeah.
But, but I like where we're going with my thing is just
so that there's a road map for people and for our staff.
I don't want our staff
because this is a very misunderstood subject and it can take a long time
for people to understand it properly because, you know, you can have
you could just hear the Miss it's not fax about thing.
So and if this is the direction to go and the other thing to think about is where
where do we place it?
Do we place in their nondiscrimination policies
as in they have what is a10 3.41
and 3.5 and in place of minor
nondiscrimination, because essentially that's that's what we're talking about.
Well, we maybe bring this up at the next policy meeting
and then include a link on the agenda
to this Haverford and then continue this discussion.
So at this point, we won't be giving it to Kim.
We will be bringing it keeping it at policy
that's ongoing.
Good.
And the same direction then with diversity, if we're looking to.
Just keep keep it on the agenda because we didn't get to it.
Okay.
And dressing and grooming, keep put it on the next agenda.
Then November.
Yeah, because it's 601. Yeah. Yes.
But I'm getting a sense everybody's in favor of these policies.
Yes. Yes.
Briefly, before we adjourn, another item to go on our agenda for the next policy
committee meeting Board operating guideline number one has an apparent
internal inconsistency, which should be resolved in paragraph three.
It states the number of board members
serving on a board's standing committee will be less than the majority
of the board, and that's, I believe, is our goal.
But then in the fourth paragraph, it says the superintendent, board
president may serve as ex-officio members of all standing committees,
ex-officio members vote.
So therefore, you contradicted
or you have gone against what you said in the above paragraph.
I love that you're reading
Robert's Rules of Order kept key.
Yes, thank you.
I know that this this issue
is actually in my former life's work. It that it's come up
occasionally over the decades.
So in addition to. That one.
We we also have on our next board meeting then
to 46 student wellness 309 assignment and transfer.
Right and what about adding
non religion as a protected class as well.
Put that on
to roll it over to November
that was on for today.
Yeah correct.
Sometimes.
Thank you all for coming
and for sitting through this for 2 hours.
Our next board meeting will be on November
12th at this committee meeting.
Sorry.
You're right. Next committee
meeting, next policy committee meeting will be on November 12th.
And I believe it's at 5 p.m..
Okay. Right. Okay.
Okay.
And it's 603 adjournment.
Thank you. Thank.