Good evening.
I'd like to open the
Saturday today, September 24th, General Services
Standing Committee meeting and take a roll call.
Kept here.
Oh, yeah.
Just go around the room.
I'm sorry.
Terry Singer Board member.
Kathy Seger. Board member.
Joe McFarland. Superintendent.
Maria Memory Board Member.
Darren Harris.
Like friends, Business manager.
Thank you.
Okay, so I can't.
Where do you.
And I just like to know that I'm sitting in for Judy.
Have her stick out.
Okay.
Who's unable to be here?
You know, just to get to approval Some remember?
Okay.
The first item that we need to approve
are the summary minutes from the last committee.
Does anybody have any questions in the last meeting?
Motion to approve.
Second.
Okay.
So the meeting's minutes. All those in favor?
All those in favor? Say I, i, i.
Okay, so our first item
on the agenda is a transportation
presentation. Mr.
Bell. Mr..
Good evening, everybody.
Good evening.
Well, just get me Mike.
You get.
I get our shot.
We get all the paper clips on my.
What do you want us to go to this meeting
when I go here, I don't get the paper clips,
you know, I get hooked up to that.
I go here.
Oh, yeah, You're just seeing the preview.
I don't go
before the meeting.
Did you
notice?
No, fucking nothing.
You scroll down right on.
Yeah, there is
some hard scroll down
and take roll call.
I'm right here.
No, you're right. Good
technology.
It's wonderful. And.
All right, so Mr.
Macfarlane's now was conversing with me earlier
this summer, and he was saying and we had some questions about
as far as seatbelts being in star installed and
okay in large school busses.
Obviously, it's a very it's a
emotional subject and controversial as well with a lot of people.
I'm going to do my best to give you
all the information that I that I have on this at this point.
This isn't something new.
This is something that
since easily 2007 come up
every 3 to 4 years.
So the topics that I'm going to be discussing today
a little bit is just a review of the states
that at this point are requiring seatbelts on large school busses
and it has some kind of legislation or mandating
the use of them on their large school busses,
federal law and school bus, seatbelts, statistics and other information, what
the cost is to install them on a new bus or one with one with seatbelts
cost to retrofit the existing busses for seatbelts
and what precautions our district takes at this point.
Keep try and keep our students as safe as possible
at this point.
We have currently eight states that have any kind of legislation
requiring seatbelts installed in large school busses.
They jumped up to a two stage from 2015,
what was it, six at that point?
And they do vary.
Arkansas is the latest one
and they're very different.
Arkansas, because of because the
there's no federal laws or mandating any states to do this.
So it's left up to the individual states at this point.
So they vary. Arkansas, it's kind of unique.
The new law gives residents the option to petition their local school board
to determine how much of a millage increase
it would take to equip their busses with seatbelts.
And they actually have the ability and to put it up
to a next vote or a vote at the next scheduled election.
And this is taking place took place in January 1st of 2018.
California has been doing it for a long time.
They have.
And in their legislation, anything manufactured
after 2005 must have seatbelts installed
and their three point shoulder harnesses
and with their fleet, they want these busses made available
to elementary level students first
floor is very similar,
except for their only lap belts, and they've been doing it since 2001.
And they're similar to California
that they want their elementary students to have the opportunity first.
Louisiana and actually Texas
are almost identical and they're both contingent upon
appropriate state funding for seatbelts and in school busses.
And from what I've researched and what I found so far,
that hasn't been going that well for them because it basically are just
opening up this the funding there, you can install them.
But if you say the funding's not there, it's not being done.
Nevada is also requiring a
three point belt on their busses purchased after July of 2019.
So that hasn't started yet in New Jersey.
We know that they've been running lap belts for for quite a while now
and they just incorporated
three point belts into their into their legislation
to begin on vehicles built after June 2019,
New York.
They've been requiring it for a while.
They're kind of unique in the way that they
they supply lap belts on their busses or busses have to have them,
but they leave it up to each school district to determine whether or not
the students are actually required to wear them.
So you can see it varies quite a bit
or all state requirements legislations the same for seatbelts, the answer is no.
Every state that has made this requirement
has their legislation because federal laws made this a state level choice.
The only busses across the board for every state that have to have
seatbelts installed are your vehicles that are your school busses
that are £10,000 or lower VW And these are busses
that are typically built on a van chassis, frequently called minibuses.
And that's because basically they're the same size
relatively as a lot of vehicles on the road.
The main common thread
if you're if you're and it'll it'll blow your mind
if you start looking at all this stuff and all the all the different
how states do things so differently.
But the one common thread is that the states that have decided to do this
do have a lot of legislation that protects your school districts
and their employees
from from certain things in the event there would be an accident.
We talked a little bit about Louisiana
and Texas that have chosen to make this a requirement, but
it truly hasn't really been implemented in those states that well yet.
One thing that is starting to become kind of new,
I know I think it's California
and New Jersey are both trying to
implement some kind of of legislation
or disciplinary actions for students that refuse to wear the bow.
So they don't wear the belt after they're, you know, told to do so.
Common examples of why a lot of states
haven't gone to seatbelt at this point,
mainly because statistically, school busses are still
the safest mode of ground transportation for school age children at this point.
And this has been proven for quite a few years.
No federal laws making them because it's
they've made it a statewide choice.
There's been a lot of studies on this and
a lot of districts and a lot of states have decided that the funding
would be better spent on loading zones and safety programs,
more so than equipping the vehicles with seat belts.
Obviously, for some for some states, expense,
the extra added cost of a new bus
inconclusive data to support
whether a seatbelt in a school bus would lower the already low fatality rate.
And large school busses are
possibly lower seating capacities that require more busses and drivers.
That's really not as much
of an issue anymore because like anything else, technology is changing.
They're coming up with engineered seats
that are engineered to not take up any more room
and that you can you can actually belt in three elementary students.
No guarantee that the students will keep them on or adjusted properly.
And I'm a firm believer in real life situations and real world.
I did actually go on New Jersey's
contractor website for the state to see, just to see if I can talk.
I actually talked to some people to see how is it working for you?
And I talked to Tier four contractors and it really didn't
surprise me too much what they said.
The high school, middle school level, very hard
to implement it and to keep anybody in there
in their seat belt or to reassure that they are wearing them.
They don't have aides on their busses to make sure that that happens
at the elementary level.
I was told that at the elementary school, typically teacher principals,
what have you will will go onto those busses
before they leave the schools, make the announcement,
kind of do a walk through, make sure everybody's buckling up.
And but the drivers are saying a mile down the road,
a lot of them were out of them and bouncing around.
And it's it's really hard for a driver to
to monitor that when they're trying to drive off. So
some people had injury concerns,
especially with lap belts not being trusted properly
with damaging younger kids, you know, causing abdominal area injuries.
With that
possible disciplinary issues with students using weapons,
increased maintenance costs, keep the belts functional and clean.
That's another thing that they brought up in New Jersey,
and that's just with lap belts at this point.
They said, I was told by both the contractors it is a constant struggle
to keep them functioning correctly, to keep them clean
and what have you.
Liability and responsibility and monitoring concerns.
That's the big thing that always comes up all the time.
Who's going to make sure that they wear them
and that they wear them correctly?
Seatbelt effectiveness and rare catastrophic accidents
involving semi-trucks or trains is questionable.
In accidents involving fire, submersion seatbelts
could prevent a rapid evacuation from the bus rollover situations.
They worry about, you know, in certain conditions about students
dangling, hanging with tension, about not being able to get out.
And incidentally, even though our state is not a state
that requires seatbelts and large busses, our busses are all required
to have a seatbelt cutter accessible and visible
at this point, probably mainly for the driver,
but it has to be there.
And the other thing and lastly is school busses are specially built.
They actually have the most amount of stipulations
put on them in manufacturing for safety than any other vehicle on the road.
And that they're
they're just they're so much larger
and they're built differently than a passenger car.
So they absorb, impact and handle impact much differently
later statistics.
I find this pretty interesting.
And even looking back,
you know, a few years because this has come up several times,
the statistics are very clear, very close.
But the latest one I was able to been able to find,
because typically they do this every 3 to 4 years
and they usually go in ten year time frames when they do this.
So there's nothing for 2018 yet.
So I had to use up to 2016.
But at that point,
you know, they're telling us there's 550,000 approximately school busses
that transport 26 million students each day in the United States
School busses are more than 4 billion miles annually on U.S.
roadways.
And that's staggering when you think about what the typical fatality number is
and how you know how many miles and how many vehicles are on the road,
it is pretty staggering.
You know, especially when you look at, you know, little dtsc
what we contribute to that, to that mileage and student numbers on here with,
you know, with 469,294 miles was last year
and transporting 3293 students.
We're just that were a drop in the bucket
between 2010 and 2016.
When you look at it 320,874
fatal motor vehicle accidents in that time frame,
1147 were classified as school transportation related.
And when you look at this data, they don't always break it down between
what exactly that vehicle was, whether it was a large school
bus, a mini bus, a school van or what have you.
So they they tend to a lot of times lumping into transportation related.
That could be that's any means that a student uses to get to school.
That could mean a walker, that can mean a bicyclist, that could mean
a student driving themselves, parents dropping them off
student school student vans, many busses
and large busses.
So they're saying between
2007 2016 that there was 182 people fatally injured in school
transportation related accidents, an average of 128 per year
occupant, occupants of school transportation vehicles.
And that could be any of the ones that I mentioned as far
as a school student van, a minibus or a large bus contributes
to 9% with pedestrians, bicyclists, etc.
account for 20%.
The highest is occupants of other vehicles at 70%.
And they say that's primarily teen drivers.
22,007.
In 3016 98, school age pedestrians were fatally injured
in school transportation related accidents.
And this is this is where it seems to be the most amount of danger for the
for the students.
60% struck by busses, 2% by vehicles functioning as school busses,
which could mean a school student van or what have you, or even
it could even be a public transportation type of a situation too.
And the 38% by other vehicles
that are not school related transportation vehicles,
probably passenger vehicles,
22,070 2016 on average,
seven passengers per year and five drivers
per year were fatally injured while riding on or operating a school.
Transportation related vehicle.
And like I said, this figure includes all school bus,
body type vehicles and other vehicles used as a school bus.
And looking over all the years that they've done
these studies that I've seen since oh seven, what stands out to me
the most is the school age fatalities involving school related
transportation that are outside the bus or by means
of other transportation.
Who are the main players?
Obviously, the the NHTSA,
the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
And they are the
they are the governing body that decides whether or not a vehicle,
whether a safety change has to be made manufacturing wise to a vehicle.
And that's anything that travels on our roads.
And they're also the ones that can obtain any kind of funds for from Congress
for testing to back up any of the data
we what everybody has seen on
the news lately is from the NTSB,
the National Transportation Safety Board, which investigates these accidents
and some of the catastrophic ones
that we've seen in the past couple of years involving school busses
has been a big trigger for everybody with this,
The Nzta, that's the biggest association
in our country having to do with school related transportation
and and they they have they have a lot of input and say, too.
And obviously parents, politicians and the media
also play a huge role in this.
This is what the latest three point seatbelt looks like.
If I was to order a bus today, this is what it would look like
if I wanted three point belts in a school bus
and I'd be curious to see what people's opinions are then values.
So go down a little bit.
What's the cost of equipment?
Is new school busses, seatbelts.
Typically we cycle for vehicles, for school busses out of our fleet
every year at a cost of 93,815
for each 77 passenger propane school bus.
As you can see that the
total cost is typically $375,206.
If equipped with belts, it would jump up to 421,008 52
If I chose the option of we chose the option to just put lap belts
in, it would increase the cost a little over $4,000, three point belts
would jump the cost approximately $11,648 per bus.
Annual maintenance costs are unknown at this point.
It is a it is a type of a seat that the retractors
are integral to the seat,
how reliable they are, anything like that.
I really I really don't know.
I you know, I have looked at them.
I mean, in order to repair them or to do anything to them,
you'd have to basically reapply to take their pulse throughout the seat. So
there's just
little, little known data about it because it's such a new item,
retrofitting,
taking an old school bus and and retrofitting it
to a seatbelt equipped bus and why it isn't a good idea.
The cost is a little bit unknown,
but more than likely a cost would be would be
is almost twice as much as ordering a bus with seatbelts.
And the reason I say this
is because as somebody who's taken seats
completely out of a bus, I know what the Labor is to do that.
And it's it's it's a lot of it's a lot of work.
It's very time consuming.
And it could be costly to
some of the bigger reasons.
There is no manufacturer certification.
It's not like you're buying a new vehicle and this has been tested on this vehicle
for the you know, for structural integrity from a brand new vehicle.
You're taking an old vehicle and you're removing seats from it
that are going to have different mounting different mounting holes,
different things to kind of decrease the integrity of the floor.
Plus, as a vehicle age, as you're dealing with rust, you're dealing with busses
typically have plywood on top of a metal floor.
You're dealing with with a breakdown of these materials.
So you can't you really can't guarantee the result
We typically keep our bus is 10 to 12 years.
It be hard to recover.
You wouldn't cover the cost of of a retrofit on an old bus.
As I just touched on a little bit, the new seat,
Miles, were not utilizing existing holes.
So you have some issues.
There are local Bluebird dealership won't even entertain the idea
of doing that because of liability concerns for the reasons that I mentioned
compartmentalization.
That's how currently a large school bus
is designed to protect the students.
And if anybody sat in a full size school bus lately,
you realize how tight it is.
But that's the idea behind it.
It's it's basically it's making a seating space.
It allows for limited movement.
It's made no larger than necessary to accomplish the task
has seat frames engineered to flex and absorb energy.
Her seat frames.
That amount is clear enough to the floor to allow the seat to flex
without breaking loose under £15,000 of pulling force
and has padding engineered to absorb energy
and also to protect the students from the metal frame work inside.
Seats are tight.
They're space 2 to 4 inches from seat back to seatback,
which means where your back rests against the seat.
The seat in front of you.
That seat back is a 24 to 24 inch space.
Seats are 39 inches
wide, giving elementary students the figure they've come up with
for whatever reason was 13 inches
of seating space, three to a seat for elementary students.
Obviously, we can't do that with middle school and high school age students
in 2009 is when they increase
the seat back height from 20 from 20 inches to 24 inches.
But I can tell you, I think the manufacturers are compensating
for even more of a change because they measure I get measurements
anywhere from 28 inches
a 20 and a half inches from the seat bottom to the top of the seat high.
They change the bottom cushion.
I mean, this has been for a while, actually, but this has changed, hasn't it?
It's been in for a while and it hasn't changed.
With the federal murder of federal motor vehicle standards, they made it that
the bottom seat cushion has to be mounted securely and can't be removed.
Typically, you need some tools or something to do it.
They used to just hinge up freely,
which made it really nice for cleaning, but not so good for an accident
if you're in a floor motion and that seat doesn't stay put.
And these are
some examples of what we have in place to protect our students
from transportation related dangers on the road and at our schools.
I mean, Arizona Road, we have bus driver training and safety meetings.
And I can tell you, you know, I'm a third party tester.
I test a lot of different other
other school districts and contractors drivers, too.
And I and I know how quickly they put those drivers into into service and to use
without any real experience where students on that vehicle we don't do that here.
We don't put any of our new drivers on with students
until they have been with our trainers or instructors for a period of time.
And we feel comfortable and that they feel comfortable.
We we have pre and post trip inspection procedures for our busses.
We have child check procedures and safeguards in place.
What I mean for that is that every bus after every trip transporting students
gets checked and gets a check mark placed in the back door
at the window to ensure that bus is empty.
And what we do when our busses come back in the morning
and when they come back in the night on top of that.
Also, we have a person that's a sign that their job
is to make sure that every bus has a checkmark in
and if one doesn't, they're going in that bus and they're looking
and if
it is just a case of somebody that they forgot
to put their checkmark in, then there's going to be some issues there
in with that person in our apartment too.
That happens too much.
We try to make our bus stops as safe as possible.
We do GPS enforcement through automatic reports.
I get a report every day on anybody who triggers that that report for
for going over five mile an hour speed limit
preventive maintenance program.
Our vehicles come in regardless every every 3000 miles and get
safety checked and look under that vehicle for everything.
We work very close with with the TPD
for a problem areas we have problems
with with people, with motorists running lights, things like that.
They work very close with us
and they actually, as part of their patrol, have vehicles
that just randomly follow our vehicles even to just to see if
they can catch somebody and just to see what's going on.
We purchase high quality busses.
I can tell you that what we buy is the best in the industry.
I've worked on all of them, been around all of them.
They are the best in the industry and they have the best visibility too,
which is very important for not having a student get ran over that.
You can't because you can't see because of blind spots.
We keep our fleet updated very well.
And so and that's a plus.
We keep decent equipment here.
Our drivers are subject to drug and alcohol, random testing.
And that also happens whenever we hire somebody.
They have to they have to pass that also,
tracking of all of our employee
medical waivers, clearances, certifications, licenses.
We run motor vehicle reports, all those type things.
And that is actually on the next one.
We have stipulated kindergartners
must have somebody there to receive them or we don't let them off the bus.
So that may mean that we bring them back to the school or it may mean that
we have to get a hold of the parent and have the driver
come back at the end of the route. But we won't let them to their own accord.
They're by themself and and two way radio communication.
So we have radio communication at all time on school property.
We have large maneuverable bus corrals.
And I can tell you that's probably one of the best investments
a school has ever spent for for safety of our students and is loading zones
only Our busses are permitted in a crowd so we don't have that
mix of parents and other cars trying to get into the corrals.
And our crossing guards are very diligent about stopping people from going in.
They don't even care if your school employees are still yelling.
Students are not permitted to exit the bus.
Once we get once
the all clear is given and we're and we're told that we can start moving,
our corrals are lined well to give a safe buffer at our
unloading zones between the walking pass
and the bus itself
and our private school students, which we have several different busses
in our high school middle school corral that we transfer students
from our regular busses to go to certain private schools.
They're not left of their own accord because some of the students who come in
are younger, our younger age students, and they drop them off
directly at that bus so that they're not in supervise them going to the other bus.
We do not let them walk from where we unload
the majority of the middle school and high school students.
This year we added
at added a crosswalk at the entrance of the bus
corral at the high school, middle school, because we've seen there was a need for
we had too many students that were running across that area
when busses were coming in and going out.
Mainly, I think due to siblings that were driving, bringing in their,
you know, their middle school age brother or sister, that type of thing.
Parents dropping off at one location, maybe at the middle school,
in high school, kids having to cross to go over.
We've seen a need there.
We added a crosswalk.
We have we have procedures in place.
And, you know,
I've watched that quite a bit and I'm very happy with that compared
to what it what it was.
Obviously, we do have crossing guard,
stationed at all major intersections, close to school property.
There's good staff supervision out during our loading and unloading times,
more so at the elementary probably than at at the middle school high school level.
But I'm happy with that.
I don't think they could do any better than what they do.
There's a lot of eyeballs on that.
And we have, you know, obviously our safety team does presentations to our
K through five students, emphasizing the ten foot danger zone around the bus,
bus staff, safety procedures and bus
safety rules
that those areas that the schools are very focused on with the unloading
and loading zones because and largely because of the statistics
and we are fortunate to have the areas that we have to work with,
I think it really helps us to make it safe. So
that's the
information I have on that at this point.
I don't know how much time we have.
Anybody has any questions.
I'd be happy to try and answer anything I did.
Thank you very much, is very thorough and I appreciate it too.
We do not buy new school busses with belts now.
Okay.
And that was just a recommendation from the NTSB.
Well, there is no there's no federal law
mandating that it in Pennsylvania did not pass a law.
No. Okay.
Now, at this point in time, Pennsylvania has no
no laws requiring seatbelts on large school busses.
So I definitely want to
give this presentation to the full board because I think it's very thorough
and it's it's a lot of great information for us to attach there to the agenda.
Yeah.
Why don't you remind us why we had the presentation?
Because we met in May. Says a while ago.
Yeah, it was when the NTSB had the article on the recommendation
about putting lap belts and shoulder belts on.
The question was, ask if we could have a presentation of what
we do, what our what our safety
pieces in place, what do other states do?
So I asked Mr.
Belt to prepare this just to give the board as much information as possible.
Kip, thank you.
Excellent presentation, very detailed, and I think it outlines
the arguments quite well.
The we emergency physicians
are strong advocates of public safety,
and without going down the list of things we've lobbied for over the past,
we've not we have not lobbied for
restraint in school busses on any organized level.
And I think the reasons are quite well outlined in your presentation.
We know no reasonable argument can be made for retrofitting our busses, that
that's one thing for certain.
So excellent. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
I did just want to when you were saying it, you were going over the cause.
I feel like I need to put a disclaimer that if
if you were proving that we needed them, I don't think that
the cost really would matter if it really meant the safety.
But that definitely wasn't the message that
I was getting from the presentation.
You know, and I the the thing I was worried about most about this
was coming across that I that I have one opinion or another on it.
Well, we rely on your opinion.
There's I mean there's there's there's good reasons for for both arguments.
So I really really I think it's there's looking at the data
and the statistics on on the vehicle itself
as well as what I'd be looking at.
One thing I was curious about is the cost, the additional cost per new bus.
So the three point restraints and 12%
to the cost of the new bus,
I just thought that was
just seemed high and interesting.
Yeah. And even if you if you look at
different different
studies and and data that's that's out there,
pretty much that falls in line with the cost that they've come up with.
I've seen it anywhere, anywhere from $10000 to $15000 in that area.
So and that was and that was several years ago when they
when they put some of that out. So
I think it's I think it's pretty it's pretty accurate
at this point.
Thank you.
Thank you so.
The next item
on our agenda this evening is to discuss the 322
concession stand for Desert Storm, where it is.
Mr. Governor,
you may go to some business.
You want to give an update on the landscape.
First thing this should be okay.
So the next agenda item that we're going to discuss is the landscape master plan.
All right.
A few weeks ago, we met with
the two associates who
worked on this project for the
Talking Round.
They went from your reservations into three specific areas.
This is an address.
And the next one is how to get through
all the drawings.
But this is the one, for example, that you did on the elementary.
And they have areas
that opportunity for improvement and in areas
that were constrained by the construction
topography of the land or whatever else, it was just holding it back.
The master class
is how it ended with those areas and broken down.
And for example, the yellow areas here
go near the entrance.
And so the planning to recommend would be something to be not constrained.
You people tend to turn to
the red area with a high visibility.
That can be said in front here
of the elementary building and then the trees in there.
Now we have to kind of
talk about
the greater area landscaping, which is in these areas here
around the area
and the here, our primary area.
And you'll see parking lot
and we're over here
and the Rainbird area,
which is over in here.
So at this point, we expect
there will be every for the US Navy schedule
probably in the next two weeks.
And they are they going to do the work or are you doing the work?
And they're just doing the plan?
We're issuing the plan at this point.
Okay.
And we'll be looking at a phased in approach across the campus
so that we can then begin to build
back.
Thank you.
Are you anticipating like you're going to be able
to do some of the work and maybe contract out some of the work?
Is that
kind of more than
what we get back in with
the things you plan looks like and what we can do.
We could conceivably do ourselves internally.
I believe it
is. However, after this, honestly,
the removal, anything we can do ourselves.
And I think you was so proud that we had passed.
It was those parts of the puzzle. Hmm.
Family versus expectation.
Go ahead. Remind me again.
Read through.
Is there just there just this part, the conceptual, the
do they actually do the physical landscape? Yes.
They will give us involved in
the phase in approach and the pick and choose.
Okay. So for the first
mark, I think what they're getting at those two
is just going to provide the plans.
They will not provide the landscaping,
sorry, return will provide the plans.
They are not going to do any of the landscaping work now.
So they're just landscape designers.
They're not okay. Actual landscapers.
Did we pay for this? Yes, we did. Okay.
And how much was it?
A lot
like thousand
$9. Oh, okay.
And the reason we did this was
because we built a different master.
We came home
and know I like the word lazy.
So we had a very long conversation about it with our ground crews
asking about the types of plantings that they would be a seasonal approach.
The color in these areas,
particularly in these areas here where there's entrances for the.
So what's your next step is to get back there
phased in timeline and the the amount each one costs.
And then will you take that to Mike or will you bring that back here
again?
Next is that preliminary final report advance back probably in mid
to late October
for you that we've seen again, uh,
for any time they go to the final product and I'll submit that
to the general services for peer review to comment on their
going back to my notes from, from February
there were three bids solicited or presented
and of the three were two twos was lowest at 9000,
the range from 9000 16,000.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Just staying for the second thing.
The next thing. Okay. Don't go.
I think Mr.
Gavin stepped out again.
So do we talk about the van?
No. We need to get to this right now.
We need to get to is Ed before I can talk about the way he comes back.
Okay.
Okay, Go ahead,
Van. Yes.
I talked to Mike some time ago, and I have some pictures.
If you go to the what we have now picture,
we're currently utilizing
a Bobcat type unit and they've been purchased for some time.
And during this time of year,
we have we have we actually that they put that on
for the sole purpose of having more space to carry things back and forth.
We have two of these units for our HPC guys and they're just not very efficient.
If you have the next picture, about a year
and a half ago, we purchased these units that are in the back of the truck,
which
are we put tools in and everything else.
But during the winter
they've got to come out because that's where salt spreaders go.
So in talking with Mike about looking at purchasing
a van for the guys to load up, because
I know from my experience you get into a project,
you say, I need this,
and then they're running back from, say, the high school or the middle school
to get something or we're trying to move pieces back and forth.
We looked at the state contract and found that that was just a very viable
way to go.
We put somewhere between 37 and 38 miles a year in our vans.
We have two carpenter vans and an electrical van
and the HPC guys use that.
So in a conversation with Mike, he said, Let's not
look at the state contract because in addition to buying the van,
we'd have to outfit it with shelving to make it functional.
He said, Would you please look at the at the used market?
So I contacted some that I've worked with before
and he was able to find a unit for us.
And if you go to the next picture, Mike,
this is a van that was used
at an apartment complex in New Jersey.
It is.
If you go to the second picture, it is already outfitted
with the appropriate shelving that we need
for the various things we carry back and forth.
And we actually had the van on site
a month ago, six weeks ago.
And our guys looked at it
and we had transportation come over and look at it and see,
well, it was an appropriate purchase.
It's very clean.
And then the third fixed the picture there just is kind of looking
in from the back of the unit with the doors open.
So it would really suit our needs and also has a ladder rack on top of it.
And it does kind of get frustrated because another thing is with the Bobcats
pull back and forth, you lose the back during the winter
and you have one little seat up front and you've got a brush on the front of it.
So you're really down to a very limited space
and there is a fair amount of chatter across the radio.
Hey, when you're coming back to the high school,
would you bring this or would you bring that?
So my request is that the General Services Committee would forward this
to the full board for approval as a a capital purchase request.
How much is it?
The purchase is seven, is just shy of
$18,000 and $17,700.
And Mike did ask me to look into other quotes from even from the states.
The contract, the state contract, straight up vans, about $30,000.
And then you'd have to retrofit or outfit the back part of.
So this particular van is currently for sale?
Yes, ma'am. Okay.
And if it's if it's on the capital plan and you want to do it right now,
you want to buy it right now, right?
Yes, ma'am.
And this vendor has been very,
very good to work with.
Noted that it may be until the end of October possibly that we had approval.
Hopefully we can get it before that, but told them it may be that long.
And he noted he would be willing to hold the vehicle
so we would look for the community to recommend it to the full board
that we would then put it on for approval
at the the first meeting in October.
If that's something the committee would would recommend.
You have the money for it?
Yeah.
As we noted in our other discussions, we have about $2 million of access
in the capital fund.
Mark and I did have a conversation earlier this year in looking at spending some
the dollars that he may have had left over from his prior budget to fit this in.
However, those purchases
all needed to be done by June 30th from an accounting perspective
and just couldn't find the right vehicle.
So I appreciate Mark putting in the time and waiting to find
the the right vehicle to bring forward.
So we weren't able to purchase that out of last year's funds
and that's why we would look to include it on the capital plan for this year.
I don't have any problems with that.
Does anyone else have any comments? No.
I move that we send the van
to the full board for the next meeting for approval.
I can ask
all those and all those in favor.
Say I, I.
Okay.
Thank you.
All right.
Don't go far.
Well, concession stand.
Look, I clicked on consent,
and we can get reaction.
Okay.
All right.
The next item we have is the concession stand.
And some of you are
taking a walk out there with us and looked at our facilities,
looked at what we currently have.
We had some options provided to us.
The one with the concession stand in the middle
was an end up costing us more and we were going to have reduced space.
So after discussion and looking at it further, if we leave the current
storage where it currently is,
put the concession stand part of it on the side of the building
and then another storage on the back of it,
that would give us the ample storage that we need
and we feel as administration that be more cost
effective for us for that design
and the other two.
So Based on the draw, it looks like the new concession
stand is 252 square feet.
Mm hmm.
And so the old one, I think was 160.
Is that right?
I'm pretty sure when I back went back.
Are you talking to one that was in the middle or.
No, No, The shed shed. Yes.
Yes. Yeah.
So we're we're gaining about 90 square feet.
And my only question is, why do you need more storage?
Do you need that?
Could that be all concession or.
Well, you currently have a shed,
and if you're okay with the shed, then that's fine.
I think you could make it bigger. You know what I mean?
Another shed.
That's a Oh, so that's where we keep the soccer balls and all that kind of stuff.
Oh, so you're going to get rid of that shed and not have soccer use the shed
freestanding?
We would use that thing.
Yes. Mm hmm. Are they okay with that?
Oh They'd be like that shed
shade.
We have a different.
No, I can always put an awning there.
That's down the line now.
I like it.
I think a concession stands great.
Has a ten foot door facing the fields.
The parents can watch the game, has an eight foot door facing, like the entrance.
You get 90, 90 more square feet.
It looks set up similarly than to the last one.
Plus it has a workstation in the middle, which we don't have now. Correct.
And it
looks like it accommodates up to three sports a season.
And that's the max we have on that field.
Yes. At one time like.
So it would be, you know, boys and girls, soccer and field hockey.
So three at one time, it looks like they each have a storage system there.
And then you
you made room for their the refrigerator that they already purchased in the back.
Correct.
They I think they have two refrigerators, but it looks like that sized out, right?
Mm hmm.
And did you add is
would this concept add heat to the building for hot water?
Is this hot water?
Yes, it would have hot water.
The heat,
the building would not be heated, but we would, in fact, in hot water
because we do not have hot water right now.
Correct.
Oh, and then it adds a sink to. Right.
Are you putting plumbing in there? Yes, ma'am.
Are you happy with that?
I think it looks great.
Are you happy? It's it's I'm happy with it.
It fits the minimum, I mean. Right.
The hot water is my thing.
That's a gross thing.
The sink to wash your hands.
Hot water? Absolutely.
Mm hmm.
And then what?
What timeline are we looking at for this?
And how much does it cost and what all that stuff?
Well, we have to we have to go move further to see what
the cost is going to be.
As far as timeline we were looking at,
you're going to have to do the turf, the turf fields coming up.
Okay.
That's something for, I guess, next year's school year.
So we were thinking of tying it into the same timeline
because it makes sense when you're doing a project
like that to have one in a group and at the same time to do it.
So turf fields are this summer, 2019 or 2020.
They were they were on the
they were on the actual the plan for 1819.
We pushed that to 1920.
That would normally mean that would happen during the spring or summer of 19
or I'm sorry, 20.
So not this coming summer, but the summer.
It actually could be both. It could be both.
So we open up and allow spending to start for that 19
as soon as April.
So as long as and it probably would happen after that.
I was saying we'd, we'd start this project after
we were done with the use of the fields for the spring sports
that it could be done as part of that capital plan.
Now, right now there's $500,000 attributed or budgeted for the
the the turf field itself.
So whatever this entire project would would mean is going to be more money.
But but as Scott noted, it probably would be better to look at this
as a whole project versus doing this and then doing the field
with engineering and architect costs, those types of things.
We might want to look at it as an entire project for that space
that looks good.
Anybody else have any questions?
How much will it cost to contribute
to the Construction Monetary
Fund?
Oh, you would.
I heard you, but I know how long it take.
All clubs contribute to the construction of it.
We really haven't discussed that now,
because looking at what our booster clubs bring in,
I don't think you're going to you're not making that much,
you know, because they're basically supplying the needs for like
their banquets, their meals for away trips.
So I couldn't give you an answer to that.
Right now, I don't have that answer.
But we we haven't really entertain the idea of doing that, though.
I think like, for example, the Field Hockey Booster Club
probably makes less than 5000 and spends the state a same amount every season.
They're one of the smaller maybe the soccer's are similar to.
I'm not sure they would ever be able to contribute a lot, but to me, this is a
this is a facility, a campus need right like that shared.
I think you've had you've hit your limit with that shared. Yes.
Got it for free.
Somebody retrofitted it for us
it's it's it's lasted it's it's it's due to be replaced.
Correct.
It's starting a dry rot and you have water damage and
other things in there as well.
So it's it's past it's time now.
So even if you let's say in a perfect world you had them
contribute, you probably looking at 10 to 15 tops
and that's tapping them out Now
that's a lot of car washes and bake sales.
And I think that we could we could debate this
because I've certainly heard
the booster clubs mentioned before, and I am not athletics.
I have no idea it.
To me, my gut feeling is that
they need all the money that they can get to help.
We were fortunate enough that we had this concession stand built for free,
and so I'm
not really supportive of going to them to help fund it.
And again, I mean,
I think that you could line up people on opposite sides of the fence,
but I think they work to supplement
needs for kids who can't afford equipment and all.
I think they do so much to help kids.
And if, you know, if you want them to come in here
and maybe go through that, we could we can definitely do that.
I would not be in favor of going to booster clubs and asking them for money.
I feel like they're dealing with dollars as it is.
And this is a big it's a big ask from that from them.
When would be
when would we be talking about the timing for building out the work?
So we discussed no, not to the rubber.
I think that's what we need this community to instruct us to do is,
as Scott noted, we'd like to see
this as one whole project to include.
So that's what we'd like the committees support.
On whether or not you feel that that's the way to go to look
at this as a essentially a renovation of that
for that area and not specifically the concessions.
It'll be part of it,
but we would bring somebody in to also talk about what it's going to cost
to replace the turf and maybe any of the other ancillary
things that may be issues out there at that point.
So if we were to go down that road, we would
we would kind of start but not start over again.
But but go back to a different company to see if they could
currently warehouse
could could encompass everything for us to pull us through this project.
We would then want to prevent present the contract
from example warehouse an architect that would be able to do that.
That would then really put together what that timeline is
when they could get bid documents together and kind of note the timing from there.
But that's what we need clarification if we're going to continue
to just work on this solely as a concession stand project
or more in the aspect of of the 322 field as a whole, I mean, make my
my gut tells me that if this is pursued as a unified project
and I don't see any problem with them getting done at the same time.
But you have one firm coming in, I think we're going to get a much higher price tag
than if we were to have a firm that specializes in the turf.
Do that. A firm that builds
little concession stands,
you know, bid on that.
You know, like I said, I don't see any problems at work
occurring at the same time.
But I think if we just give this out to an umbrella contractor or an umbrella
firm, we're going to get a much higher price tag than if we we haven't.
We've nope, we have no profit.
This, this doesn't there's no price attached to this right now.
It still would need to go out to bid.
And maybe, Mark, you can maybe if I can.
What we ask the contract to do in this case was handle associates
out of Lancaster and Hamel does do a lot of small work renovation work
and that's why I call them because this kind of fits in well to what they've done.
They've done a fair amount
education work where they've renovated classrooms in those pieces.
And I asked them to break the pricing out for us so that I can share that with you.
So to get from here, this is an idea to what the term the business
schematic design, which is really the next step in the process,
which would be to say, here's the space, here's how it all fits together.
There's a price of about 80 $400, and then take it to schematic design
to say, yes, this will work, this is what it looks like, and kind of
get the different contractors involved.
The HVAC folks, the plumbers, any structural folks
that they all need to come to the table just for the concession stand,
just for the concession stand and the next part where these okay,
once we met and we realize we can make this happen,
you need to take it to the next step, which would be biddable documents,
which is something you could then put on the street and say here it
is, bid this project out and their price to take it to
that step is about $13,800.
That would be the next step.
And these steps are going to occur
anyway.
All right.
At some point, you just can't go from here to build me that
because there's there's going to be other issues.
Different
disciplines are going to be involved are structural, plumbing,
electrical and those pieces of it,
plus the whole approval process through the township,
which will require permits from them and others.
And then the final step would be the Construction Administration piece.
And again, those pieces will be there
in any contract you do because they're necessary steps.
Why can't we just use Hammer Associates?
Nah, because they're a smaller firm.
Because I think Warehouse is a huge firm they're dealing
with, like the Hershey Company and this building.
Why can't we just use them?
Can can't they develop this plan to the end?
That was in recognition.
I have no idea their expertise in field turf.
So talking from now, just separate to concession
and then I don't agree that that will be less of a price
because there is an economy of scale that that happens when you have a larger
project happening that people can't spend their time on.
But there's no reason we can't go and get pricing like you would like to see it
for, for for two different projects or keep this one moving
or the company that came to assess our terms,
the turf, turf, Corton track or whatever they call themselves,
the local company, aren't they the ones that replace it or is it it
is that we put that out for bid to see who we want to replace it.
So can't you just bid the two projects separately and do them at the same time
or confuse the turf people also build concessions.
Fans have this.
Look at Mike.
I'm really confused now.
No, now what am I missing?
I think.
I don't think you're missing anything.
Is this what? Where?
When you do a project of that scale,
you'd rather have them all on a site at one time.
Okay, I guess.
I don't know what the turf company, if they do, if they do concession
stands or not, but we know we have a company that
they got from for the shed itself that's totally different from the turf
because we're not replacing we're not replacing the drainage,
we're not replacing macadam and anything underneath.
We're just replacing basically a carpet is what you're doing.
Right.
So you're talking one general contractor for both projects
is that
maybe, maybe not.
We haven't we haven't even gone that far yet.
But you sound like you want direction from us.
So what direction do you want from us?
What do you want from off shore?
What are we doing?
Whether or not you would like to continue these as separate projects
or include them as one.
And what I've heard Kathy say, as she would like you to separate
Terry would also like to see it as separate.
So if that's what confirmed, what their their expertise is,
if that's that's because I mean, I was confused.
I thought you meant together under one architect, general contractor.
But if you're just talking
about the budget and how we pay for them and the time line,
if you think the concession stand will get done faster,
if we link it with the turf to do it all at one time, then I would like it
to be linked with the turf.
I don't.
My comments were more efficient and more economical.
I don't know which is going to be,
you know, even as we think we know what needs to be replaced with the turf.
But that's how you make mistakes is not bringing the professionals
in at the time you have and saying, no,
these are all the things that you should be upgrading.
I don't think we have enough answers to some of those questions to be making
some of these.
So I'd like to do it as as one project
because I think that's the most efficient way.
But I know that's not always the case.
And so if the board would like, its to see it as two different projects.
That's what we're just looking so that if we would bring it back as one,
that we're just looking for
that guidance in how you would like to see it presented back to you.
I thought the turf was more like just replacing carpet as well because
they've already dug it out and like, you know, laid that the foundation of it.
So it's really just
like you replace a piece of it recently just in the center of the it's
kind of so they're just coming to replace the whole thing.
But I would like to see this project move forward.
So I really don't care how it happens if it can happen as one arch,
that's all I want to see how I feel.
Whatever you, whatever the way you feel is the best to proceed because, well,
getting out and at the latest, I'd like to see it
done 2020 summer with the turf at the latest.
If it going to be done earlier, that be great.
But if we can link it with this and it happens as one big
and I didn't see any cost changes by going with an architect
or going out to bid, we got a higher bid and a smaller
because I just stand back from a smaller contractor,
so I'm not quite sure that's a good blanket statement to use.
I point out Cathy is in one of these I specifically talking to Hamel about
was to get to that stage would get you to a point
that they can give you a better estimate of what this project is going to cost.
You know and at that schematic stage, if that is their estimate, comes back
and says, hey, it's this, you may say, hey, we're going to scale this back.
And you can that
that would be that's where you're going to get a number at some point to say, hey,
this is what we want or This is not what we want.
But you cannot look at this anybody and say
it's going to cost you start until you get to that schematic stage.
So just just to clarify, regardless of the final decision,
the next step is obtaining
biddable documents for the concession stand.
Right.
Is that what you need You're going to need at some point?
I think what I would probably consider before I would go to
that point would be to at least go to schematic, Right.
So that they can then begin to bring the
the players in place to look at what's involved
the other disciplines and say, hey, this based on what we have here,
the next that the middle part of it is, is is would obviously be necessary.
But I think from your standpoint of how much is this going to cost,
I think the schematic is would be a very logical step.
So what's the approximate cost for schematics?
About 84, 100, 400.
And the material documents you said were 13,018 and another.
You're going to get to that at some point. Oh, yeah.
Whether that's through Warehouse or through Hamel or whenever
that's going to need to happen.
I think that the schematic part is, but I think it's really important.
Is it too early to do that?
If you're talking about
something for a year and a half away, you're talking about the schematic design
which you could put on the shelf probably for a number of years.
Honestly, you're not putting, Yeah, this is what we want to look like.
This is the work that's been done.
Can we move that now forward?
You could.
I think to to Mike's point, it would give you kind of a number
to know what this may cost.
And I think a better sense of you've kind of said
this is what we want, what we like, what does that really look like?
I would like to see the schematic design and the biddable document
move forward to the for approval
in I Mike, you don't want to where you were
thinking about going with warehouse but the hammer has already drawn up.
This is providing examples so I think what you've noted gets us
moved on to the next phase.
I think if you just someone could second it.
All right, so I move that we move the concession
stand to Hamel Associates Architects drawing to the next stage of schematic
design for 8400 and biddable documents for 13,800 for approval to the full board.
So with that,
I think we only need to take the first step,
because if we approve the billable documents,
then you aren't able to make any changes once you see the schematic.
So I think you want to see the schematic first
because that's 13,000 additional dollars.
It's not if 13 will get you both, it'll get us the schematic,
an additional 13,000 will then get us billable documents for a total of 21.
And if you if you get two, if you do both steps that same time
and it comes back and you say, Wow, I want to move this wall or move this,
then you're going to go back to visual documents.
I really think that if you're looking for the next step in the process,
I think the billable documents that I'm sorry,
the schematic designs step is all right.
So I don't mean that motion to move the schematic design of the concession.
Stand by.
Hamel Associate Architects for 8400 to the full board for approval.
Second,
is there any discussion?
I just have one to make sure
Mark's understanding the expectations.
So if this under our normal process committee would make that recommendation,
our next board meeting, first board meeting in October,
the board would act on that.
And so I don't know if the expectation is that this comes back
at I don't know if we even have an October General Services Committee meeting
or if that would be November.
But just to provide a date or timeframe at which you would expect
to get those that information back
in. Look, and one of the questions would be
if we didn't approve it till the eighth, would they be able to have it by the 22nd?
General Services next meeting is November 26.
Okay.
So our next meeting, we have it by then.
I don't know.
I can ask them, you know, with what their time frame.
I can answer that question.
Tomorrow morning is a phone call
saying with an approval to go to a schematic design,
what is your timeframe for something to be available?
But it sounds like we have time because we're not actually,
if you're looking to do all the construction at one time,
even though you're moving this one part forward, that could still be the plan
that we're still a year and a half away from actual digging, digging dirt right
Or not, you're still looking
at doing it at all the same time because you're do it with the turf.
That could be next summer.
Okay.
So we need to vote on that motion tonight
at the floor.
Reading right now.
Right now
that it would then it just all those in favor
that would be on the October 8th agenda.
Okay.
All those in favor. Hi.
Okay.
Anything else?
All those oppose.
Not hearing any motion passes to make it simpler for it's easier.
Maybe I'll help you understand.
Like when they did this stadium, the first place the field up a 322.
Okay.
Your lights are a separate company.
That's a musco lighting.
That's a separate company from your bleachers.
Okay, so even though it's under one umbrella, one project,
you had different contractors coming in because here's a light specialist.
Here's your bleacher people, here's your turf.
So basically, you had three companies come in
and you might have had excavators come in first for the turf
and then the people that stitched it sold it from field turf
or a turf, whatever one you use as a different contractor altogether.
So it's like phases in a project, even though it's under one thing.
So it may not necessarily be a bid from
the warehouse, whatever that is.
It could be different contractors coming in.
It's just doing a project
close to the same time.
And so we can still do that.
We're just we just approved schematic design at this point. Yep.
Thank you.
Said everything you can.
Okay.
I don't see anybody here from the public to make public.
I'd like to adjourn the General Services Standing Committee.
Motion to adjourn.
Moved the second meeting adjourned at 617.
Thank you.
It's only 10:00 that they can
see us.
But I don't know
that we haven't come back twice.
But I'm just saying that's all we're going to say.
Contract administration?
Yeah.